private buyer from broker's intro

Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

i think you gotta pay.

You can ( i did) negotiate a workaround with broker in advance if there is a different route to the boat than the broker or (for me) if the boat has already been for sale so the broker might have nothing whtsoever to do with a sale: in this case the owner has to declare (by name) to the broker any people he has attracted, and the broker does likewise to owner.

having a website per se tho need not mean it cuts out a broker - it facilitates a sale inthe same way as does tidying up the boat.

Fact is though that the test above would fail- as decribed in the original post the broker introduced the sale, and at introduction of cient both sides acted as though the contract applied.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

For once I find myself agreeing with Michael E. To try to avoid the broker deal altogether would be dishonest, and most likely in breach of contract. To go to the broker to negotiate a reduced fee would be entirely reasonable but the seller would have to show he missed out more than just showing a buyer round. The latter is a fairly standard way of doing things. In fact I have several times told a broker that I didnt want him with me since that way we can better talk between myself and wifeas we look over a boat. Crude salesmanship can be a turn off.

The seller would need to be careful - a buyer who will willingly try to involve him in cheating the broker may well try to cheat him too.

As to proof. Well the SSR for a start. Marina records. Tittle tattle - because p[eople dont like to see others getting away with actions like this hypothetical situation. Lots of possibilities.

Talked to a broker about this once and he said he had several times had to take poeople to court. The only time he didnt was when the seller was a barrister and the broker felt that the courts would be biased against him
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

[ QUOTE ]
Talked to a broker about this once and he said he had several times had to take poeople to court. The only time he didnt was when the seller was a barrister and the broker felt that the courts would be biased against him

[/ QUOTE ]

My architect friend has the same view of barristers. No point in suing them - they know how to work the system. Compensate for the almost certain witholding of the last two staged payments by front-loading the payments.

Mark
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

[ QUOTE ]
Nice troll ? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Not a troll at all.

Only just got back on line after a weekend in London, inc LIBS, so apols for the tardy response.

Not even a hypothetical question as most have guessed. It happened on Wednesday/Thursday last.

The main point in the thread is about trust - having entered into a contract, one should have the integrity to stick to it - I fully agree with this.

However, trust is a two way thing and you either have to assume it is there from the beginning or it has to be earned. Trouble with brokers is that they charge a lot (8% plus VAT) and repeatedly prove why they have a bad reputation, so there is little trust from the beginning.

Fully agree they have found the possible buyer and should be paid accordingly. There is a lot more to it than that (finding buyers is easy on the internet). If they buyer prefers to leave out the broker in managing the contract, that is their perogative - quite reasonable IMHO for the seller to renegotiate.

Most concluded negotiations end in compromise,....... common sense should be allowed to apply.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

[ QUOTE ]
Next day, interested couple contacts owner to talk about a private deal.

How much would owner expect to pay broker, if anything?


[/ QUOTE ]

Nick,

When I was an estate agent, I came across this now and then, (how often I didnt come across it... I dont know!)

If a seller "withdrew" their property from the market, and I subsequently discovered that they had sold to someone I introduced, I took them to court if I was confident of winning. This was always a matter of principle as the time involved in prosecuting a case was generally worth more than the fee recovered. Where I wasnt confident, i took the philosophical view, and got on with my life, fully believeing that "What Goes Around, Comes Around", and I heard of lots of examples of this, which possibly gave me more satisfaction than recovering the fee.

If a seller told me that someone had knocked on the door having seen the "For Sale" sign, or a friend of a friend was interested, and wanted to negotiate the fee, I always agreed to half of our fee very quickly, and cant remember not getting it.... sellers thought we were being very fair, and I was saving a load of time in proving and prosecuting a case.

In many instances, usually during negotiations, I could show that we earned our fee by getting a sale agreed at a price in excess of what a seller would have accepted... so anyone choosing to dispense with our services was at least likely to lose money.

In the example you suggest, it would seem that the buyer would not have known the boat was for sale if they hadnt found it at the brokers...... and i am also sure that the broker would have been quite happy to assist with the sale, if the work wasnt taken away from him.... so the seller morally, and probably contractually, owes the full commission.... and that is my answer to the question, i.e. the moment the buyer contacts the broker, it cannot be a "private" deal.

Something else to consider is that the party who moots the "private" deal is obviously happy to dump on the broker, so they will be likely be looking for ways to dump on the other party to the deal.

If the seller chooses to either keep the deal secret from the broker, or negotiate a lower commission, it is for his conscience, and making this type of thing a habit will probably bite him on the bum one day. If the buyer agrees to the shenanigans, they shouldnt be surprised if the boat sinks a week after they buy it.


Harsh? Moi?
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Depending on the broker, the vendor will most likely have signed a written contract with the broker.

I remember looking over the Ancasta contract a couple of years back, and that even had a clause as I remember that if the boat was sold without any involvement from them, while it was 'on their books' they would expect to receive half of their extortionate commission.

The particular branch of ancasta involved provided appauling service (disappointment after being very impressed with ancasta at QAB and Lymington).

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gifWe took the boat off their listing after 6 months. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Funny you should mention A****** on this thread. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

They have two different forms of contract, one is Open which means the owner can sell privately at no penalty. The other is Central (IIRC) which means they offer the boat through a much broader network but expect to get paid if the owner sells elsewhere.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Would he not have been honour bound to disclose this?

All this talk of honour strikes me as so much hot air.
Do you think a business feels honour bound towards you?

Like in the hypothetical example - if it had been a small local broker, of course. But if it had been a small local broker he would have KNOWN the boat, not sent spotty oink over.

I've never sold a boat through a broker, but looked at lots advertised by a broker. Some hadn't seen the boat, others mistook her for another and one didn't even know where she was (back of the yard I think, I'm sure you'll find her).
The bigger the broker, the worse the service. Most boats didn't even look like the pictures in the ad.

Big business & honour?? Don't make me laugh!
TalkTalk is supposed to provide phone & broadband, yet have failed to do so for the last 3 months. Still want money though.
Norfolk Lines cancel crossings for "safety reasons" for cars - but still sail with lorries.
British Gas promised to put us on dual tariff meter 6 months ago - still waiting.

When it comes to big business - utility, broker, transport,... - I have one motto only: Let's do it to them before they do it to us.
 
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