private buyer from broker's intro

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BlueSkyNick

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private buyer from broker\'s intro

Hypothetical situation - a couple interested in buying a boat visit broker's office, see something they like, obtain details, and broker shows them to boat.

By chance, owner is on board, broker's rep (doesnt know the boat at all) leaves owner to show interested couple around. Owner provides address of website which provides more pictures and information.

Next day, interested couple contacts owner to talk about a private deal.

How much would owner expect to pay broker, if anything?

How would they know who has bought the boat - owner could say its Michael Mouse or whatever he chooses.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Bottom line is the broker bought about the sale. He is contractually entitled to his commission. It's between the hypothetical vendor and his hypothetical conscience - if he didn't want to pay brokers fees he shouldn't have engaged a broker.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

The broker does a lot more for his full commission than just find interested buyers. ie They are expected to handle all the paperwork, deposit, check outstanding finance and all that stuff.

If neither buyer or seller want to avail themselves of the full service, the seller could renegotiate with the broker.

Alternative situation would be that the seller finds a buyer privately, with the broker not being involved in any way. In this case, the broker gets zero. So in the above example, its surely better for them to accept something rather than expect all and get nothing.

Hope you get my drift.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Having been in this situation myself. I thought that it was only fair that the contract (verbal) and commision be paid to the broker. Although I could have made a small savings, the broker had paid for advertising and put a small ammount of time into the exercise. For this I thought it only fair that they be re-imbursed as nobody, buisness or person should work free of charge.

The owner hinted that they would be happy to deal direct without the broker as the broker effectively left us to it.

I also felt that I had better protection and comeback by placing the broker in the contract. For instance the documentation and confirming who "was" and "is now" the legal owner etc.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

I agree with Lescargot.........Just seems the honourable thing to do /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Afterall, the hyperthetical vendor, may need the services of the hyperthetical broker another day?
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Reads a bit like ''yesterdays bad offer is todays good offer'' when trying to sell a boat in a slow market with few and far spaced interest..
I am sure a broker would accept something now rather than face the prospect of either not making a sale at all or being denied any commission.
I cannot comment from experience though,but having only good experiences from boat brokers (and estate agents hahaha)would just hand the intersted party over to the broker with the explicit instruction to wrap it all up nice 'n tight and be glad that the process has been foreshortened.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Provided the hypothetical boat's on a pontoon berth or on the hard paid for & berth or lift were paid for by your hypothetical owner, then your hypothetical finds himself in an "odd" situation: he's in a position to screw a broker, instead of being screwed by the broker.

What could your hypothetical owner live with?

If we're talking about a sizeable purchase - say 75K - I wouldn't think twice.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

I actually think this hypothetical act is disreputable and dishonest. I worked all my life in a business where deals were done regularly on the telephone - offers made and accepted - and it was on trust.

I have sold 7 or 8 boats without a broker but I have never approached a broker to sell for me. If I did and he introduced me to a buyer then I would feel honour bound to pay that broker.

Do not really think the paperwork or the visit is very important - anybody can do it. When you approach a broker you are clocking into part of the investment the broker has made in advertising, printing, Office, heating telephone etc etc. It is getting the right potential customer to the right boat that 'costs' the rest is easy peasy... If he does that and then leaves the proud owner (who is only going to say good things about his own boat) - and the potential buyer together that can be quite good salesmanship.

Several boats via my web site have got sold. I do not charge anything to display them. Nobody has ever given me anything other than the promise of a drink or a meal.... Interesting? I get 800 visitors a day to the site... And I work at the site as does the hypothetical broker.

I think honour is quite important. If you do a deal then you should stick to the deal and not have '2nd thoughts' to save paying what you morally owe.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

How about where the boat is listed by multiple brokers, and also privately?

We viewed a boat listed by a broker in Hartlepool, but decided it was overpriced. Later this boat popped up on two other brokers at different prices. Finally when I followed up a Boats and Outboards private ad, it turned out to be the same thing but at a still reduced price.

What if I have bought the boat following his price drop and via the private ad? Would the Hartlepool broker who arranged the first viewing have a claim?
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

We bought and sold the house next door, retaining parking area, last year. The house sold to the first person who looked at it on the day after it went on the market. Some people thought that the estate agent had made easy money - I said that we only paid him for one thing - to find a buyer. No problem about a quick sale.

Same here - broker facilitates the intro and is worth, and legally due, his commission.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

As a buyer I think it is fair enough to go direct to the vendor even if the boat is advertised by lots of brokers. If you approach the broker direct then you must tell the vendor that you did that.

A buyer has no contract with the broker - he does not employ the broker. BUT if you go to a broker - get info on a boat then you are entering into an agreement. Here in France they will not show you a boat or tell you where she is unless you sign a 'visit form'.

To contact a broker about a boat then approach the vendor direct trying to cut out the broker then that is pretty disreputable. Hopefully the vendor will be more honourable...
Or am I totally old fashioned - out of date - ??? If I am I think its sad
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

[ QUOTE ]
To contact a broker about a boat then approach the vendor direct trying to cut out the broker then that is pretty disreputable. Hopefully the vendor will be more honourable...
Or am I totally old fashioned - out of date - ??? If I am I think its sad

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe we are both "old Fashioned", but as I previously said, I think that to try and wriggle out of paying what seems to me to be the rightful commision to this "Hyperthetical Broker", is both dishonerable and disreputable. It doesn't matter if the boat sold for 250k or £250.

Meself, I would sooner be "old fashioned", and know that I had doen right by the broker.

It's a little disturbing really, you see this sort of question come up on the forums from time to time, and some of the opinions expressed sometimes leave a bad taste in my mouth. I have the impression that some people regard money as a lot more important than being either reputable or honourable?

As you said Michael, it's all a bit sad.
 
Theft, pure and simple.

The vendor has agreed a contact with the broker, the broker has introduced a buyer and the transaction has gone through. In many countries, eg. Canada and Australia failing to pay would be an open and shut case of 'theft of services' with a crimninal record looming. How any forumites can condone plain vanilla thieving amazes me. If you don't want to pay a broker, don't appoint one. The number of forumites who regularly complain about the falling standards of todays world should perhaps think again about the days when a man's word was his bond, like or not not. I wouldn't fancy a bet with some of you chaps, you would never pay up would you!!
 
Re: Theft, pure and simple.

If the buyer had walked past the boat and seen a home-made For Sale sign, I'd have no qualms about leaving the broker out of the loop, but in this case, it was the buyer who introduced the buyer, so he's done his job for once(?) and is entitled to his commission. Were I the broker, I'd sue for it if necessary.

It's the seller who has the contract with the broker, so it's not an issue for the buyer, apart from the question of the buyer's integrity. What else is being fiddled, faults hidden, etc? I'd be asking myself if I wanted to do business with this person.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

Seems like the broker has done only partof his job for which he contracts, and expects to get paid a %.

If the broker knew little about the boat, and wasn't prepared to do the work of selling it (showing you round, answering questions, liaison/negotiation between vendor and buyer) then I think it's up to the vendor to go to the broker and say, "you only did half of the work, I suggest you have earned only half of the commission".

Cutting out the broker entirely is not an ethical practice; re-negotiating a contract which has been modified by the parties concerned is acceptable.
 
Re: private buyer from broker\'s intro

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like the broker has done only partof his job for which he contracts, and expects to get paid a %.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seems to me the broker would have been unprofessional had he insisted on showing the buyer round himself when the owner, who knows the boat better, is on board.

Of course he's entitled to his fee.
 
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