Princess R35 and Fairline F33. Value for money ?

[sharpness]

I think it's great that both Princess and Fairline are producing these new boats. If your not familiar with them, see clips below. I think they're amazing looking with fantastic performance, but with their asking prices of 400k for the Fairline and 570k for the Princess am I missing something? You're basically paying 0.5 million for very fast good looking speedboats with basic overnight accommodation capability. Am I out of touch, or would you deem this to be the going price for these boats ?

 

[ontheplane]

Not value for money in the least, but I guess they have done their research and think enough will pay.

I saw a review the other day, and thought what lovely looking boat the F33 was, it didn’t mention a price and I thought it was Fairline trying to get back into “cheaper” boats as in 33 ft with twin outboards - I thought about £150-200k.

So if they are thick end of half a million by the time you have put options on, I can’t see who’d buy them, but I don’t have that kind of money, so I guess it doesn’t matter what I think lol.

I also saw the review of the P33 and can’t see what the foils do - it seems to make just as much wake as any other boat so they can’t be helping efficiency all that much

 

[[2068]]

As chase boats for a much larger motor yacht or a high end dayboat, they make sense.
They are clearly not marketed towards the family cruiser market.
Many luxury items are actually quite poor value for money, because the volumes are lower and they are incredibly specific.

 

[Bajansailor]

You're basically paying 0.5 million for very fast good looking speedboats with basic overnight accommodation capability. Am I out of touch, or would you deem this to be the going price for these boats ?

This seems to be the right ball park for this type of niche boat on the other side of the Atlantic as well - over here 'day' boats (with some basic accommodation) like this seem to be much more popular than in Britain.

The base price of an MJM 35 (which seems to be top of the range re quality) with a pair of 350 hp outboard motors is US$ 630,000.
MJM 35z (2018-) | BoatTEST

Boston Whalers have a good reputation - however you could get a 33' Outrage (also with 2 x 350 hp O/B motors) for US$ 248,000.
Boston Whaler 330 Outrage (2019-) | BoatTEST

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I saw a review the other day, and thought what lovely looking boat the F33 was, it didn’t mention a price and I thought it was Fairline trying to get back into “cheaper” boats as in 33 ft with twin outboards - I thought about £150-200k.

I suspect thats what Fairline dealers were hoping for but instead what they've got is an overpriced 33 footer which may or may not sell a few units on its bling value. To an extent the Princess R35 is different in that it is really more of a test bed for foil technology than an attempt to grab a big share of the 33ft sportsboat market

And it is all about volume. Unless you can build and sell hundreds of units a year, a manufacturer cannot achieve economies of scale which allow competitive pricing. I dont know how many F33 units Fairline intends to build per year but I bet its in the tens rather than hundreds, in which case there was never a chance of it being a competitively priced boat so the only marketing strategy was to bling it up a bit and try to sell it at a higher price

 

[petem]

So if they are thick end of half a million by the time you have put options on, I can’t see who’d buy them, but I don’t have that kind of money, so I guess it doesn’t matter what I think lol.

Sadly, they're not for the likes of you and I but if you've got £10m+ in the back and a £2m house in Mallorca then it's a nice accessory.

 

[oldgit]

A case of remaining in the frame and getting some exposure until this particular little problem blows over and Princess and Fairline can decide which way the wind is blowing regards public sentiment ?
There are about 800,000 houses in UK worth 1M .No idea how many in excess of that.
Interesting poll on here sometime ago regards house vs boat value.
Even if .05 % of UK were in the market for a boat ?..... and that just us let alone the world.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Sadly, they're not for the likes of you and I but if you've got £10m+ in the back and a £2m house in Mallorca then it's a nice accessory.

Pete do you know how many F33s Fairline have sold and by sold I mean actual customers rather than dealers forced to buy stock boats? And how many Fairline plan to build in a year?

 

[Portofino]

Been to Genoa , the show twice now and both just disappear and were pretty anonymous in that company .
Plenty of nice proper toys for the £10 m in the bank , £2 M Villa owners who from a boat perspective know there onions .

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Been to Genoa , the show twice now and both just disappear and were pretty anonymous in that company .
Plenty of nice proper toys for the £10 m in the bank , £2 M Villa owners who from a boat perspective know there onions .

Er, let me guess Porto. Now I might be going out on a limb here but are you suggesting that they might be looking at an Itama instead?

 

[BruceK]

A case of remaining in the frame and getting some exposure until this particular little problem blows over and Princess and Fairline can decide which way the wind is blowing regards public sentiment ?
There are about 800,000 houses in UK worth 1M .No idea how many in excess of that.
Interesting poll on here sometime ago regards house vs boat value.
Even if .05 % of UK were in the market for a boat ?..... and that just us let alone the world.

I'd be asking that statistic of the 800 000 how many are paid up and is there any coin left. Property in and around certain city centres imho certainly doesn't represent value for money either.

 

[sharpness]

Sadly, they're not for the likes of you and I but if you've got £10m+ in the back and a £2m house in Mallorca then it's a nice accessory.

Your reply sums up exactly what I was thinking. They're great looking boats, but obviously not aimed at your average boater.
Come to think of it, the way new boat prices are these days, its hard to imagine how the new boats of today will ever drop to a value due to depreciation where they become affordable to a boater with modest disposable income, and so therefore is boating going to become a hobby for only the wealthy in the future.

 

[[2068]]

Does anyone have a link to that house to boat value poll?
I'm at around 3:1, and an F33 is waaaaaay out of my league.

 

[ari]

Sadly, they're not for the likes of you and I but if you've got £10m+ in the back and a £2m house in Mallorca then it's a nice accessory.

That's precisely it. People view prices from their own personal perspectives. You can pick any boat from £20,000 upwards and find plenty of people who would think that was outrageous and never worth it, and from their financial perspective, it isn't.

See also Rolex watches, Bentley cars, Mont Blanc pens etc etc. Most people are baffled by the fact that a £300 Seiko does the same job as a Rolex and a Bic biro fulfils the exact purpose of a Mont Blanc.

Fairline doesn't need everyone to think its boat is worth the money, it only needs its target audience to.

 

[Portofino]

Er, let me guess Porto. Now I might be going out on a limb here but are you suggesting that they might be looking at an Itama instead?

Not really , thinking Riva as well as theses below .

Baglietto MV 19

Any Prado ^^

Canados blue game range ^^^ is the 42

Yes Itama fit the brief as well since you have raised the subject ..The red one is owned by an Italian very closely associated with Ferrari , currently has some Ferretti stock . .

You see for villa owners you need outside space and ease of sea access and plenty of sun pad acreage .

 

[Seastoke]

To many having a boat is a toy , where me an swimbo was saving up for a deposit while living in a flat , then spent the money on a boat . Then we bought a small house ,while saving for a bigger house we doubled our mortgage and spent it on a boat. Now we have the wife craved and the boat I craved , just had the boat first. SS

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Er, let me guess Porto. Now I might be going out on a limb here but are you suggesting that they might be looking at an Itama instead?

This market has existed a lot longer then Princess and Fairline decided to fish for it. Yes Itama has been one of the first see Itama 38 model produced from 1980 to 2002 and about 170 units sold.
Before Itama there was Magnum with the 35 then 38 and then 40 model.
And before Magnum there was Italcraft with the Sarima sold in like 700 units in the sixties and build of wood, which is kinda where this all started.
An Italian builder like Tornado made hundreds of boats of the 38 (near copy match of a Magnum 35) for this kinda of market. And also Bertram had a 38 and 43 which competed in it.

So its not really a new niche, it started since marinas basically started to have condos in them. The Brits minus Sunseeker with Hawks never really fished for it.
Possibly Fairline previous similar attempt might have been the Sportfury in the end eighties.

 

[[181131]]

Both are nice boats but if I was in the market for that sort of boat I’d rather have the Windy 37 shamal.

 

[ari]

So its not really a new niche, it started since marinas basically started to have condos in them. The Brits minus Sunseeker with Hawks never really fished for it.
Possibly Fairline previous similar attempt might have been the Sportfury in the end eighties.

I always liked the Sportfury. It lived under the shadow of its Sunfury sister of course, almost everyone opted for the Sunfury version for its bigger cabin and cockpit that went right to the stern, but I though the Sportfury was an interesting 'left of field' alternative to a Hawk 27. Same length, same layout, cool looking boat and a lot more room as it was beamier.

 

[RandallStephens]

“Flash dayboat attached to a larger yacht“ has also been a growth market.

But Fairline and Princess are competing with (albeit often even higher priced) builders who have a massive leg up in quality and reputation..

Examples include Dutch yards such as Wajer, Vanquish, and even TenderWorks- who do completely bespoke builds to a quality level that they are allowed brand their builds as “t/t Feadship”. TenderWorks also have a new series production line called Vandal. But Wajer and Vanquish are in a different league to Fairline/Princess in terms of quality, and TenderWorks is the Eagle Lightweight GT To the Wajer/Vanquish Bentley to the Fairline/Princess Jag if we want to use UK autos as an analogy.

The Italians have some interesting options- if I were looking for a RIB as a dayboat I’d look at Anvera, but in general you're not going to come close to the Dutch for build quality and willingness to modify to the owner’s desires. Bottom line for me, you’d have to be a pretty loyal owner of a larger Fairline/Princess to buy one of these two over the Italian options in the market, let alone the Dutch.