henryf
Well-Known Member
It's fantastic.
Henry
Henry
Princess P68 flybridge review
- Thread starter henryf
- Start date
Pinnacle
Well-Known Member
Hurricane seems not to agree......
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?408291-SOUTHAMPTON-BOAT-SHOW-were-you-bored&p=4933239&highlight=#post4933239
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?408291-SOUTHAMPTON-BOAT-SHOW-were-you-bored&p=4933239&highlight=#post4933239
henryf
Well-Known Member
It seems literary agents pay by the word. So whilst my previous review, "It's fantastic" is precise and to the point a little by way of explanation is probably in order.
full review with pictures and even a moving picture at the end :
http://www.charter-solent.co.uk/princess-p68-review.php
In answer to Hurricane I think the aft galley is actually better than internal stairs. It makes using the cockpit for AL-fresco dining very easy. The flybridge can accommodate a crane to store toys according to the Princess website. In terms of storage I don't disagree Re: the dryer and might even go so far as losing both washer and dryer in favour of extra storage.
One of the 3rd cabins could easily be re-assigned a huge storage area as well, possibly with the ability to "slot in" beds again when it comes time to sell on.
Henry
full review with pictures and even a moving picture at the end :
http://www.charter-solent.co.uk/princess-p68-review.php
In answer to Hurricane I think the aft galley is actually better than internal stairs. It makes using the cockpit for AL-fresco dining very easy. The flybridge can accommodate a crane to store toys according to the Princess website. In terms of storage I don't disagree Re: the dryer and might even go so far as losing both washer and dryer in favour of extra storage.
One of the 3rd cabins could easily be re-assigned a huge storage area as well, possibly with the ability to "slot in" beds again when it comes time to sell on.
Henry
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Cozzy
Well-Known Member
Interesting comments regarding aft galley which makes me wonder if this arrangement suits med boating v UK.
We looked at P52 (aft galley), P56 (fwd galley) also Squadron 42 (aft galley) and P43 (fwd galley) and in each case we preferred the fwd galley arrangement. The P56 is a fabulous boat as is the P43.
We looked at P52 (aft galley), P56 (fwd galley) also Squadron 42 (aft galley) and P43 (fwd galley) and in each case we preferred the fwd galley arrangement. The P56 is a fabulous boat as is the P43.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
I though the squad 42 was a forward gally (or at least the last one I skippered was)
henryf
Well-Known Member
The P43 is pretty much perfect for it's size. We were so happy with the P42 and the 43 only expands and improves. At that size trying to re-design the wheel is too much.
At 50 plus feet I think it's a bit different. The problem with the P52 is the space opposite the galley is wasted meaning you have a compromised galley, small fridge etc, for no material gain. In fact a loss internally, the P50 it replaced had a separate dining and sofa area as well as a bigger galley with full sized fridge freezer, more storage, more counter top etc. the P52 also encloses things into a narrow, single person space. Just bending down to open cupboards is a challenge. Ignore the issues like flybridge steps on the wrong side, both helm on stbd side etc. I'm still convinced that the P52 is salvageable, this was my idea for a revised interior layout:
Think how people use houses. They regularly socialise in the kitchen. Particularly in a flybridge where the cockpit can actually be used throughout the year with side covers and heating. There is definitely a space trade off with galley up designs (hence why they don't work on smaller boats). The P68 has had to come up with kitchen units which actually project out into the cockpit and hence the strange hinging glass and stainless flap. But yes, I can see how aft galley designs work in the UK.
I think the P60 is the ultimate "traditional" galley up design. It's big enough to accommodate a usable galley.
Henry
At 50 plus feet I think it's a bit different. The problem with the P52 is the space opposite the galley is wasted meaning you have a compromised galley, small fridge etc, for no material gain. In fact a loss internally, the P50 it replaced had a separate dining and sofa area as well as a bigger galley with full sized fridge freezer, more storage, more counter top etc. the P52 also encloses things into a narrow, single person space. Just bending down to open cupboards is a challenge. Ignore the issues like flybridge steps on the wrong side, both helm on stbd side etc. I'm still convinced that the P52 is salvageable, this was my idea for a revised interior layout:
Think how people use houses. They regularly socialise in the kitchen. Particularly in a flybridge where the cockpit can actually be used throughout the year with side covers and heating. There is definitely a space trade off with galley up designs (hence why they don't work on smaller boats). The P68 has had to come up with kitchen units which actually project out into the cockpit and hence the strange hinging glass and stainless flap. But yes, I can see how aft galley designs work in the UK.
I think the P60 is the ultimate "traditional" galley up design. It's big enough to accommodate a usable galley.
Henry
Cozzy
Well-Known Member
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Er why are they mutually exclusive? We've got both on our boat and they work together very well. A boat of the size of the P68 should have internal stairs to the flybridge wherever the galley is located. Good review though. Personally I feel that there should be a way of shutting off the galley from the rest of the saloon either with fixed or sliding partitions. The P68 is going to be crew operated and the owner is not going to want to sit in his saloon watching his crew do the washing up. A partition would also give some privacy to the saloon seating area from people gawping from the quay when moored stern to and provide a location for more storage which looks a bit lacking in the P68 galley.
Btw, this aft galley arrangement with it's flip up window and serving area outside is a straight copy of what Ferretti were doing 8yrs ago. My F630 has exactly this arrangement only its better
because the galley can be partitioned off and there are internal steps to the flybridge a couple of paces from the galley entrance.I nearly forgot. One general comment from my ever perceptive SWMBO and this applies to nearly every boat not just the P68. Why do boatbuilders always design their cockpit seating facing inwards towards the boat rather than facing outwards towards the sea? Surely it is more pleasant to sit in the cockpit looking out to the scenery rather than watching the aforementioned crew doing the washing up in the aft located galley?
jfm
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the review Henry! The 68 is an outstanding design imho in terms of its use of glazing and the cabins layout. The separate master staircase avoids grabbing space from the two twin cabins - not a new trick but it might be in this size category. I can't tell from the drawings but I wonder whether they could have moved the forward staircase a bit forward and cut it into the twin cabin ceilings and then given each twin cabin a full half of the hull width, making those cabins pretty stunning. Anyway it is good stuff
The open-plan aft galley isn't new and customers will fall into lover and hater camps . I'm surprised they don't offer two main deck layouts to appeal to both. @Deleted User I agree there could still be internal stairs but as many of us know they are becoming extinct outside of Italian boats and semi custom. A more startling example was the sunseeker 86: a fine machine but I invite you to pace out the journey carrying plates from galley to flybridge dining table. If you have 20 minutes to spare. (Sure, it is crew who will be doing that but it is your dinner that will have sporadic food supply etc, and crew are humans/nice people too)
I don't fully agree Deleted User's point that an aft galley needs some enclosing. Sure, I don't like the idea of a dinner on the aft deck dining table with the food being prepped right there in full view. The sketch of plating up food will be a conversation distraction; you want it just to arrive. Likewise the washing d/dishwasher stacking. But in the Med you will be eating on the aft deck or flybridge so you can just close the saloon patio doors I think. But if you want the saloon and aft deck to flow together in party mode, I fully agree with Hurricane that a forward galley is better. Each to their own though
Hurricane, you can have a crane and tender stowage on the flybridge. You'd crane it on in front of the arch, unlike p67, but that should be ok (if you are in the tender-on-flybrioge camp to begin with, which I'm firmly not!)
The lower helm on the princess 68 is a crummy offering. Looks good in the styling department, but yet again you have to get off your chair and lean forward to touch the touch screens. Why do boat builders keep doing this? And the stuff in pole position that you can reach from your chair is nav light switches and stuff!
@Deleted User, aft facing built in seating on the lower aft deck is done often by IT builders: Canados, Sanlorenzo, Pershing have been doing it for years. Bart's Blue Angel has it. In smaller boats you need the bench seat along the transom to create crew cabin headroom but at this size (68 feet) you don't. I'm personally not a fan of aft facing bench seats in <24m boats but it is an each-to-their own thing. I prefer what Princess have done which is to have a forward facing bench then some method to sit facing aft when not dining: the Princess 68 has an aft facing sofa in the transom iirc, and similar concept appears on Ferretti 731/750, Squadrons 60 and 42
I'm really pleased to hear henryf that the engine room on pincess 68 is of decent size and not a car crash or parts throw in with no room to move. I guess the generous beam helps. Fuel tanks are decent size so they haven't saved space there, another "tick".
The helms seating on both decks looks good - two seats so you are not billy no mates like the helmsman of a Princess 82
I expect many customers will be won over by the stunning glazing - Princess are leading the pack on this aspect and creating a pretty unique offering in this size category. Also this boat has all LED lighting - at last!
As ever, when buying a boat there are plenty of compromises to make. Alongside that stunning glazing and clever cabin layout there is plenty of visible cost cutting unfortunately, but you can upgrade a lot of those things away of course. All in all this is a very impressive piece of boat design.
Last point: does anyone know the price?
The open-plan aft galley isn't new and customers will fall into lover and hater camps . I'm surprised they don't offer two main deck layouts to appeal to both. @Deleted User I agree there could still be internal stairs but as many of us know they are becoming extinct outside of Italian boats and semi custom. A more startling example was the sunseeker 86: a fine machine but I invite you to pace out the journey carrying plates from galley to flybridge dining table. If you have 20 minutes to spare. (Sure, it is crew who will be doing that but it is your dinner that will have sporadic food supply etc, and crew are humans/nice people too)
I don't fully agree Deleted User's point that an aft galley needs some enclosing. Sure, I don't like the idea of a dinner on the aft deck dining table with the food being prepped right there in full view. The sketch of plating up food will be a conversation distraction; you want it just to arrive. Likewise the washing d/dishwasher stacking. But in the Med you will be eating on the aft deck or flybridge so you can just close the saloon patio doors I think. But if you want the saloon and aft deck to flow together in party mode, I fully agree with Hurricane that a forward galley is better. Each to their own though
Hurricane, you can have a crane and tender stowage on the flybridge. You'd crane it on in front of the arch, unlike p67, but that should be ok (if you are in the tender-on-flybrioge camp to begin with, which I'm firmly not!)
The lower helm on the princess 68 is a crummy offering. Looks good in the styling department, but yet again you have to get off your chair and lean forward to touch the touch screens. Why do boat builders keep doing this? And the stuff in pole position that you can reach from your chair is nav light switches and stuff!
@Deleted User, aft facing built in seating on the lower aft deck is done often by IT builders: Canados, Sanlorenzo, Pershing have been doing it for years. Bart's Blue Angel has it. In smaller boats you need the bench seat along the transom to create crew cabin headroom but at this size (68 feet) you don't. I'm personally not a fan of aft facing bench seats in <24m boats but it is an each-to-their own thing. I prefer what Princess have done which is to have a forward facing bench then some method to sit facing aft when not dining: the Princess 68 has an aft facing sofa in the transom iirc, and similar concept appears on Ferretti 731/750, Squadrons 60 and 42
I'm really pleased to hear henryf that the engine room on pincess 68 is of decent size and not a car crash or parts throw in with no room to move. I guess the generous beam helps. Fuel tanks are decent size so they haven't saved space there, another "tick".
The helms seating on both decks looks good - two seats so you are not billy no mates like the helmsman of a Princess 82
I expect many customers will be won over by the stunning glazing - Princess are leading the pack on this aspect and creating a pretty unique offering in this size category. Also this boat has all LED lighting - at last!
As ever, when buying a boat there are plenty of compromises to make. Alongside that stunning glazing and clever cabin layout there is plenty of visible cost cutting unfortunately, but you can upgrade a lot of those things away of course. All in all this is a very impressive piece of boat design.
Last point: does anyone know the price?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Actually my point was that it would benefit from a partition at the forward end of the galley. This would give some privacy to anybody seated in the main saloon seating area on the port side. As you know well enough, when you're moored stern to, people strolling on the quay just love to stop and gawp seemingly oblivious to the privacy of anybody inside the boat! A partition would also give a location for some overhead storage which does seem to be lacking in the P68's galley
Yeah I know but you tend not to see it at this size of boat. Its almost as if the designers just plonk a forward facing bench in the cockpit without any thought
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Med spec'd, list price is £2m ex-VAT, but not sure if that included the hardtop.
jfm
Well-Known Member
Ok, well then alas it is isn't great value. £2m for 68 feet is pretty punchy. Maybe stabilisers were included at that price
henryf
Well-Known Member
The base price for the boat show boat was around £1.7m plus Vat (list) with MAN lumps. The hard top was £47k plus Vat. I almost nicked a price breakdown and wish I had because I can't recall if stabilisation was listed. I think the boat had it fitted and it was around £75-80k but don't quote me.
Re: the galley I wouldn't be averse to high level units returning out over the sink to form a demarcation between cooking and saloon areas. The design brief is clearly glass and space so nothing allowed to intrude !
I wish I'd remembered to photograph the engine room, I thought of you jfm as soon as I saw it !! It's a long old drop down into the lasarette and I would have liked some more substantial, possibly angled steps but these are minute details which you could tickle. There is also scope for racked storage in there, particularly if the cable storage drums vanished.
Henry
Re: the galley I wouldn't be averse to high level units returning out over the sink to form a demarcation between cooking and saloon areas. The design brief is clearly glass and space so nothing allowed to intrude !
I wish I'd remembered to photograph the engine room, I thought of you jfm as soon as I saw it !! It's a long old drop down into the lasarette and I would have liked some more substantial, possibly angled steps but these are minute details which you could tickle. There is also scope for racked storage in there, particularly if the cable storage drums vanished.
Henry
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Nick_H
Well-Known Member
I don't know what was included specifically, I just asked how much and they said that a nicely spec'd med boat would be that price. I would guess the hardtop probably was included, as every Princess from the 60 upwards had one fitted, so they must assume that most buyers would spec one. The salesman also knows I have a gyro fitted to the current boat, so maybe he did include stabilisers in the guide price.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
Any mention of the 30pct ?
jfm
Well-Known Member
Thanks Henryf. As we all know the list price is just a starting point of course. Perhaps there is £300k off for a cash buyer though I have no idea. Then it is getting vaguely sensible at £1.4m basic (if you can ever call that sensible - how the boat world has moved on since Princess launched the 37 in 1975 ish and announced "this is likely the largest boat we will ever make; can't see any point in making anything bigger"). By the time you have specced it with med basics like airco passerelle and some navb kit it is perhaps £1.55. Quite punchy still, but ok I guess.
Yep I never worry about things like bad ladders. They can all be fixed. It's only the unfixables you should worry about. Glendinnings are tricky though, because while they are nice to have they do eat up quite a bit of room. You need them on an 80 footer imho because 90+ amp cable is too much to carry. You don't need them on a 60 amp boat, and so this 68 footer is on the cusp. I don't know what airco power is fitted and it isn't stated in the brochure but Princess will not have overspecced the airco and therefore 60 amps might run it, in which case you don't need a glendinning. (I'd warn anyone considering buying a boat with so much glass that if the airco really does work on 60 amps with all the other ship loads then it might be underspecced).
There is some inconsistency at Princess about cable drum fitment and electrical loads. The show 68 had cable drums yet a good friend has just taken delivery of a new (stock) 82 and it doesn't have them, and I was amazed to be tied up next to a brand new princess 88 in Corsica last month and it didn't have them. The captain on the 88 produced a 60 amp hand coiled cable from a locker and plugged one end into a marinco socket on the boat and the little plug on the dock end of course didn't fit the 120 amp dock socket. No big deal though; I'm sure this can all be specced properly when ordering a new build
Yep I never worry about things like bad ladders. They can all be fixed. It's only the unfixables you should worry about. Glendinnings are tricky though, because while they are nice to have they do eat up quite a bit of room. You need them on an 80 footer imho because 90+ amp cable is too much to carry. You don't need them on a 60 amp boat, and so this 68 footer is on the cusp. I don't know what airco power is fitted and it isn't stated in the brochure but Princess will not have overspecced the airco and therefore 60 amps might run it, in which case you don't need a glendinning. (I'd warn anyone considering buying a boat with so much glass that if the airco really does work on 60 amps with all the other ship loads then it might be underspecced).
There is some inconsistency at Princess about cable drum fitment and electrical loads. The show 68 had cable drums yet a good friend has just taken delivery of a new (stock) 82 and it doesn't have them, and I was amazed to be tied up next to a brand new princess 88 in Corsica last month and it didn't have them. The captain on the 88 produced a 60 amp hand coiled cable from a locker and plugged one end into a marinco socket on the boat and the little plug on the dock end of course didn't fit the 120 amp dock socket. No big deal though; I'm sure this can all be specced properly when ordering a new build
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
I assume they offer that if you ask the price a second time, thus proving you're a serious buyer.
henryf
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind the show P68 was off to the States hence the cable drums. The side doors were also an option to accommodate the owners end of garden mooring dock I believe.
A/C wise I think I counted 4 compressor units on the stbd side of the engine bay.
Price-wise I thought we all just knocked 30% off on the forum. Add on the trade in at 10% more than I paid for it and all of a sudden it doesn't look too bad
Henry
A/C wise I think I counted 4 compressor units on the stbd side of the engine bay.
Price-wise I thought we all just knocked 30% off on the forum. Add on the trade in at 10% more than I paid for it and all of a sudden it doesn't look too bad
Henry
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
The Americans do this on there sportfishers since over a decade. They call it mezzanine. I like it very much.
I saw some old Sanlorenzos and VZ (the still nice 18 model had it) motor yachts in the past having a similar set up, where they leave the aft bench area free.
All spot on what you said, I love the fact that you can enclose the galley on the 630. It was the first model with this set up and still among the best.
IMO some of the recent aft galley are a bit to minimal and plain IMO, and I agree 200% for med cruising its one of the best main deck layouts, since most of the dining is done on the aft deck.
Still when it comes to bigger size yachts of 23 meters plus though mid saloon galley (I prefer them enclosed or possible of) and side deck door though make more sense.
MAFWeiss
Well-Known Member
I totted up that the 68 with ALL the bells and whistles that I would like to spec (inc e.g. hard top, gyro stab, passarelle, aircon, hull paint, 3rd helm etc) would be an eye watering £2.3m to £2.35m retail inc VAT depending on engine and NOT counting delivery. GULP!!! :apologetic: