Princess 40 - Serious problems?

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Cymraeg

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This is my first post where I attempt to include images, so apologies in advance if I make a mess of it!

I've been to see a Princess 40 which I really like, but am concerned over the state of the mechanicals. The owner claims that oil changes have been performed regularly by a boatyard but “can’t find” any paperwork to support this, although the registration document and VAT invoice were located straight away. My main concern is that there seems to be a lot of oil around the compartment but can’t really tell whether this is down to sloppy ‘maintenance’ or whether there’s (or has been) a more serious problem.

See hull behind engine sumps:-

pic_1.jpg


pic_2.jpg


Also signs of either leakage or spills around the sump gasket on each engine:-

pic_3.jpg


pic_4.jpg


There is an inch or two of sea water in the bilge (it was a disgusting colour so there was no way I was going to taste it) but both shaft seals were corroded so I assume this is where it’s coming from.

The only other major problem that I have found (prior to survey) is corrosion around the side windows:-

pic_5.jpg


Why is this as I thought the windows were stainless, or is it just the surrounds that are stainless with ferrous material underneath?

Otherwise the boat seems in pretty good nick, having under 200 hrs usage. If I can get some assurances on the above (and get the rather stubborn vendor to drop the price a little more as he’s been looking for top dollar for nearly a year) then this one might be a go-er.

Thanks in advance for any replies… /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Get a decent marine engineer (volvopaul of this site springs to mind) to check out the engines, re oil. He should also be able to confirm reason for sea water in bilge. Oil and water mixed turns brown (emulsified oil).
A lot of window frames are anodised aluminium and not s/s. s/s will be mirror finish, and alu will be satin finish. So long as the s/s or alu is not eaten away, windows can be removed, renovated and re-installed.
Just sounds like an unloved, unused boat to me. Price should be lower as a result.
If the vendor won't move, look elsewhere. There should plenty to choose from?
 
Looks like the oil leaks are above the sump gasket, i.e comming from above, engines should really be very clean, almost like new at 200 hours.

Tread carefully, as miket says, ask volvopaul to have a look for you.
 
Cheers all. I should have said that the engines are TAMD63P's which started on the button with only a little grey smoke, but seemed a little lumpy on idle (only 500 rpm with the sticks in the middle). Throttling up out of gear to 800rpm smoothed things out quite a bit.
 
Looks like most boat bilges to me, lots of reasons for spillage, changing oil filter, checking raw water strainer will give a nice mix of oil and water in the bilge. Its dissapointing but not neccesarily a sign of anything significant.
The window would worry me more actualy, if you can see that much rust before you remove the trim it will be worse underneath, then it means all the others might be the same or need removing to be sure and before you know it its very expensive. The leaky stern glands can be fixed for pennies in comparison.
 
Get a survey and pay to get those engines looked at.
If it ain't right there are plenty of others on the market.
 
I've never had engines that don't leak some oil. The rust behind the window frame can't be serious, just take the trim panel off and have a look. It may even just be a clip for the panel itself. If it's by an electric window, it may be the lifter mech, as these are not stainless 'cos they use automotive ones. I'd get both checked out, but I certainly wouldn't let it put you off the boat, if its otherwise OK.
 
I had a 1998 princess 40 with 63P's that developed oil leaks. This was traced to cracked sumps on both engines and required complete engine removal. The sumps were replaced under warranty. Other than that, a really good solid boat!
 
My last boat was a P40, had it for 6 years/800 hours/10,000nm. It never looked like this - strikes me at best that this is sloppy maintenance and I'd be wondering what else hadn't been looked after. They're great boats though.

The 63P's were prone to the occasional oil leak but nothing like your pictures would suggest. Also the engine bay bilges were always bone dry on my boat (the lazarette bilge generally had a little water in it, we never did find where it entered).

Agree with all the other posts on getting it professionally looked at - you don't say what year it is or what the asking price is so difficult to assess whether it's a potential bargain.
 
if he cant find the service sheets ask him who did it and contact them, get as much info out of the person who did the service as poss.

I would be cautious of any amounts of oil and that did look a lot, shoddy servicing where spilt oil is not cleared up is not good, and could be used as an excuse for unseen leaks. Remember small leaks get bigger and then need repair, there is no reason why any engine should leak, and if it does it has a problem all be it a small one, yes after a few years of hot use gaskets seep but once its started it will get worse, but in real terms small drips when the engine is stopped are not so bad.

Also remember a small amount of oil mixed with water will spread 30 times and look worse
 
All diesel engines leak to a greater or lesser degree sooner or later and some mechanics are none too careful about clearing up spillages when doing oil changes so it's actually not easy to judge whether what looks like a leak is a leak. Having said that, the fact that the owner is happy to present the boat in this condition for a top dollar price is possibly indicative of his attitude to maintaining the boat in general, a prime example being the window frame corrosion. Princess certainly went through s few years in the 1990's when they fitted aluminium window frames with s/s covers but aluminium frame corrosion normally results in white powder substance. As you say this looks like ferrous corrosion so my guess is that the whole frame is s/s. Either way it should be dealt with
If you do make an offer on this boat, you must get both a hull/structural survey (point out the window corrosion to the surveyor) and an engine survey including an oil analysis. An oil analysis can be useful to determine the health of an engine but it is desirable to know how long the oil has been in the engine and how many hours the engines have worked since the last oil change. This is because the level of contaminants is dependent on the hours worked as well as the condition of the engine. You have said that the owner can't provide receipts but surely he can remember roughly when the last service was done? For the general engine survey, this is best done with the engines under load so the sea trial would be a good time to get the engine surveyor along
I would agree with other comments. If the owner is proving difficult there are loads of mint boats out there for sale so just walk away and find another
 
"The 63P's were prone to the occasional oil leak but nothing like your pictures would suggest. Also the engine bay bilges were always bone dry on my boat (the lazarette bilge generally had a little water in it, we never did find where it entered.

Curious,just out of interest,where did the drips of water from the stern glands in your boat collect ?
 
So much for progress.

My 30 year old Watermota is as dry as a Nun's noonaa, and my stern gland even drier.

I'll go away shall I? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
I would get it checked by an independant person - must say that when I spill any oil or anything else I clean it up there and then. So this could be something that has been cleared but not cleaned or something that has gone pop.
might seem a silly question, but did you dip the oil and look at it?
 
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