Price - diesel v petrol

[coombm]

Looking for a new c25ft towable - at LBS a couple of the stands were recommending going petrol rather than diesel for a variety of reasons one of which was news to me. Namely that the duty on marine diesel was to be brought into line with petrol in the next few years - any views?

 

[spannerman]

There was an interesting article both in MBY and in a Norwegian boat mag, where they did tests with identical boats, one with a gas engine and one with diesel. And interestingly both mags independantly came to the same conlusions. Allowing for initial purchase price, loss of interest on the money spent, running costs, depreciation, and resale value after 5 yrs, both said that up to about 100 hrs use per year, gas was the way to go. Much over 100 hrs then diesel made more sense. Then there are personal cosiderations most diesel engines under 6 cylinders are rough and vibrate, 6 cyls are great, much smoother and diesels are inherently reliable. Gas is even smoother and quieter, and you get more bang for your buck with gas engines. And don't let the scaremongers put you off with stories of fires, sure its a risk, but a survey of insurance claims shows that there are more fires on diesel boats, perhaps because the owners are more blase about fuel leaks, whereas gas boat owners keep a careful eye on the engine and fuel system. Bear in mind nearly every boat under 30-35 ft in the states has a gas engine or two or three!!! as a trip to any part of Florida will confirm. And thats a country where you can get sued for sneezing on someone. If it was a big problem with fires you wouldn't be able to give 'em away.
I work on both types of engines and run A V8 gas myself. Steve

 

[sfh]

Diesel is more available once on the water.

 

[DavidJ]

If you are thinking of towing abroad then diesel is cheaper. I pay about €85 - €90 a litre (there is no untaxed stuff there)
David

 

[derekh]

having just replaced my v8 petrols with a pair of volvo kad32dp's I am still shocked at the performance which was way beyond my hopes and expectations, the fuel savings (Before had cost £80 per hour now costs less than £10 p/h.) The 28' sunseeker planes in a few seconds with 6 persons on board and has a top end of 40 knots. maintence costs are down and the engines even start on cold, wet days.
We covered more sea miles last year than the 5 years before all joined together and almost all ports visited supplied diesel, few supply petrol. Diesel and petrol duty coming into line lets hope not too soon I heard 2006 then a local farmer informed me that although that was the plans for agricultre the idea had now been shelved. Possible it is time to register a small farm which uses a pile of diesel or else do what I do sometimes and use Green diesel from ports in Donegall.

 

[DepSol]

Bet hey were selling american boats or last years model that has been standing there


Dom

2003 is going to be a good year for me

 

[Dave_Snelson]

I'm looking for exactly the same size and style as you are. I'm convinced that diesel is the way to go for a) safety b) economy c) reliability and d) resale value.

I do a lot of boating and what I don't want is to pull into a marina and find no petrol or gas - most marinas in UK / Europe have diesel.

The proposals to bring red diesel into line with road duty fuel are just that - proposals. It may or may not happen but the above arguments remain unchanged.

Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>

 

[duncan]

lets not get confused here - the proposals are to bring fuel tax harmonisation across Europe.
Clearly this would have an effect on Red Diesel but it has a hell of a lot bigger effect on the UK's budget overall with the reduction on fuel duty associated with road transport. Harmonising one without the other makes no sense and is unlikely to be adopted by other countries where low tax marine/agricultural diesel is available.
and I am not trying to start a will it won't it happen debate - thaere have been enough of them over the forum years.
One point often overlooked on safety is that whilst petrol fumes are explosive when set off with a spark neither fumes or fuel can be ignited at all by heat alone. Diesel however can be ignited by heat without a spark. The odd petrol explosion v more likely diesel fires therefore seems to be the equation to consider! Bearing in mind that most crusing folk carry a petrol outboard safety is best described as a draw surely....
The modern diesel is also surprisingly frugal at around the 80% T mark compared to petrol engines - assuming parity in price 1 up to diesel.
Diesel engines are massively over priced, or petrl ones dirt cheap, at least 3 marks to petrol there.
diesel inherently more reliable and fixable...it's the fuel system, the fuel system, the fuel system or a total engine failure (ignoring overheating issues of course) - but petrol are dammed reliable too - in 600hrs of use over 2 outboards I never had a falter on either, and newish well serviced inboards don't get towed in often (if they have fuel in the tank) - only 1 to diesel here in my opinion.
Noise and running vibrations - petrol have an edge but not much really going forward
but I have diesel for one reason above all others, sited above, I don't have to think about the cost of going anywhere, in fact I sometimes go just 'cosit's cheap! Poole to Yarmouth for a beer comes down to the 5 quid YHC charge for the stay, the water taxi cost and the price of beer - not the tenner on fuel. Therefore I do more hours, enjoy myself more and that's why I have a boat - the initial cost, even as a current loan repayment, just doesn't get in the way of enjoyment!

 

[sonarbell]

How much did it cost you???. Dont want a made up figure, a real one will do.
Thanks

 

[DIW]

At last a sensible reply. What is it about Diesel ? is it a 'Man' thing ? BIG engine,
BIG Noise, BIG Smell, BIG Smoke, Diesel Engine go with BIG Truck and Big Truckers, so by association ??????
Mrs Capt.

 

[tripleace]

if diesel does go the way of petrol it will still be available.

Petrol is a nightmare to find.

I'm staying with diesel.



<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boating-ads.co.uk/365.html> Triple Ace Link</A>

 

[oldgit]

Having always had petrol powered boats in the past but having finally changed to diesel.I must say that for a smallish almost trailerable or smallish type boat used only every now and then(after excitement has worn off) petrol power is OK.BUT, I was always spending a fortune on petrol during the year and that was using cheapo unleaded, lugged from local garage, not pound a litre marina stuff.Although dearer on initial purchase and harder to locate second hand,you will save fortune running on diesel.

NV.

 

[tr7v8]

Duncan agree with most of what you wrote apart from diesel reliability. In order to give the power and performance (power to weight) of petrol from diesel they are looking at things like turbos, superchargers (sometimes both), electronic controls including on injectors etc. Once this gets older not only is reliability going to be an issue but getting it fixed will be another. Getting this lot fixed without a main dealer will be a nightmare.
The only proven advantages as I see it is availability & range for the same size tankage.

Jim
--------

 

[hlb]

There is no contest if the boat is used for serious cruising. Never mind the other arguments. You just can not buy petrol most places.

<font color=blue> Haydn

 

[coombm]

Doesn't it depend on your expected hours (at present we would be c100 hrs)? You presumably are way in excess of 100 hrs.

 

[derekh]

the two engines cost just under £20k with dp boxes, stainless props, new controls, fuel filters etc. In fact the only thing I kept as old was the steering wheel or whatever it's called on a boat. £2k labour and I got £2k when I sold my old engines. My boat is worth £10k more than it was so I reckon I will be in the winning side before the new engines are out of warranty at the start of 2005

 

[duncan]

you know, from our chat at the show, that I agree with the principle of keeping it simple - and avoiding electronics, where possible.
However it's left hand right hand when it comes to the sort of fuel efficency the KAD300 manages!
On the other hand I do not see the turbo as an issue, basic mechanical item nowadays - cars trucks etc - no more of an issue than for example hydralic tappets. Loke everything else nowadays correct usage and regular serviceing .thats the secret!
regards

 

[NorthernWave]

I have a fletcher 238 which is a 25 foot sports cruiser with twin petrols, I thought it might be a bit frightening the amount of petrol it would use but its not too bad. Sure if I blat around at the 40 knots it can do it would cost me hundreds but at 25 knots she isn't bad at all. The engines are twin 4 cylinder mercruisers and we did consider converting to LPG but then we went and got ourselves a footy footer so am now selling her.

Chris

FIXED IT!!! So good being an inny!!!

 

[ArthurWood]

Being pedantic

"Shocked!" Don't you mean surprised, or have you gone "American?"
I even hear a BBC newsreader say "One month anniversary," the other evening. I thought "10.00am in the morning" was bad enough! What is our language coming to!

 

[derekh]

Re: Being pedantic

Sorry Arthur, Iam heading to Miami this Saturday and had to get some practice in. I will try not to be shocked again.
Have a nice Day!!
Derek