Pressie for the mistress

[Pkewish]

I thought I'd spend some money on the Mistress (sshhh don't tell the wife). My aim is to get her better rigged for next years Round the Island Race. My questions is - how much more speed will I get out of a new set of those fancy looking (Grey coloured) racing sails over my existing, 'cruising' ones? or even new 'cruising' sails for that matter.

The sail makers, of cause, are telling me it's a noticeable difference but they are trying to sell them.

Pete

 

[sailorman]

I thought I'd spend some money on the Mistress (sshhh don't tell the wife). My aim is to get her better rigged for next years Round the Island Race. My questions is - how much more speed will I get out of a new set of those fancy looking (Grey coloured) racing sails over my existing, 'cruising' ones? or even new 'cruising' sails for that matter.

The sail makers, of cause, are telling me it's a noticeable difference but they are trying to sell them.

Pete

No 1 priority is to sail fast in the right direction

 

[Pkewish]

I hadn't thought of sailing closer to the wind, or away, or point for that matter. Do these things perform better all round? or just look better?

 

[KREW2]

I bought a new main last year and was tempted to go down the speedy route.
Our local sailmaker said you will notice the difference, but do you realise they will only be effective for about 3/4 years, and then, if you are serious about racing you will need to shell out again.

 

[Pkewish]

I bought a new main last year and was tempted to go down the speedy route.
Our local sailmaker said you will notice the difference, but do you realise they will only be effective for about 3/4 years, and then, if you are serious about racing you will need to shell out again.

Thanks, yes I was aware they had a limited life but I only plan on using them for racing so I guess that would be OK.

 

[wotayottie]

I thought I'd spend some money on the Mistress (sshhh don't tell the wife). My aim is to get her better rigged for next years Round the Island Race. My questions is - how much more speed will I get out of a new set of those fancy looking (Grey coloured) racing sails over my existing, 'cruising' ones? or even new 'cruising' sails for that matter.

The sail makers, of cause, are telling me it's a noticeable difference but they are trying to sell them.

Pete

Been wondering the same thing. Conclusion so far is that I would need several foresails because there is a big difference between hanked on or foil sails and the usual roller reefed ones, even made of laminate cloth. The main is less of an issue and it seems for the main to just be a matter of better sail cloth. When I replace my main I will go cruising laminate.

But then there is the problem of how long they last in such good shape.. I've been pleasantly surprised by how well my cruising laminate foresail has held its shape despite all year round sailing and racing so its maybe not as critical an issue if you arent one of the real hot regatta circuit type racers.

How much difference? Quite a bit if you go for the foresails that arent roller reefing. But there are lots of other things that will make a difference too, like a clean bottom, and empty boat, a crew who are concentrating and a skipper who knows what he's doing. I've yet to manage the last two.

Crew practise helps too. And having a tactician who isnt also the helm and owner. I could go on but I wont.

P.S. Have you looked at the price of carbon sails yet? If so, and you're still thinking of them then either you are a banker or a GP. Or have just been resigned by the BBC

 

[Pkewish]

P.S. Have you looked at the price of carbon sails yet? If so, and you're still thinking of them then either you are a banker or a GP. Or have just been resigned by the BBC

LOL, none of the above, I just married well!!!

 

[flaming]

I thought I'd spend some money on the Mistress (sshhh don't tell the wife). My aim is to get her better rigged for next years Round the Island Race. My questions is - how much more speed will I get out of a new set of those fancy looking (Grey coloured) racing sails over my existing, 'cruising' ones? or even new 'cruising' sails for that matter.

The sail makers, of cause, are telling me it's a noticeable difference but they are trying to sell them.

Pete

Simple answer - yes a massive difference. However... Without wanting to sound harsh, if you are asking this question I would suspect that you don't have the performance background / knowledge to get the most out of them, a poorly trimmed carbon sail is still a poorly trimmed sail. If you do 1 race per year, probably in the ISC class, buying carbon race sails is the equivalent of buying a sniper rifle for a stag do paintballing session...

I race on boats that have that sort of sails, as do all our competitors. If the level of sailing you want to do all have carbon sails, then you'll need them, plus a regular crew prepared to practice, plus a good rig tune, plus a clean hull, plus a number of kites, plus.....

If your competitors are all cruising boats with cruising sails, stick with that. Don't be the one who starts the arms race...

 

[Pkewish]

Simple answer - yes a massive difference. However... Without wanting to sound harsh, if you are asking this question I would suspect that you don't have the performance background / knowledge to get the most out of them, a poorly trimmed carbon sail is still a poorly trimmed sail. If you do 1 race per year, probably in the ISC class, buying carbon race sails is the equivalent of buying a sniper rifle for a stag do paintballing session...

I race on boats that have that sort of sails, as do all our competitors. If the level of sailing you want to do all have carbon sails, then you'll need them, plus a regular crew prepared to practice, plus a good rig tune, plus a clean hull, plus a number of kites, plus.....

If your competitors are all cruising boats with cruising sails, stick with that. Don't be the one who starts the arms race...

You are not being harsh, just objective. I do have the knowledge (and experience) of extreme sail trim but mostly for my own benefit of trying to get the highest reading on the log. As for competition performance, then no, but we all have to start somewhere and this is were I find myself. I have a regular crew made up of 20 something graduates with nothing better to do during the week. They have all raced dinghys quite extensively and cruised yachts and are very happy to take orders. I just hope (for my sailings sake), that they don't find jobs too soon.

Yes, carbon sail are pricey, but I'm thinking they are the next step to eking out every last knot. If I do go down this route, then the performance knowledge will soon build -I guess.

Thanks for the info though.

P

 

[flaming]

Fair enough.

I guess the only other question is - what sort of boat is it? If you're talking about a typical cruiser racer, then it'll be worth it, but in my experience if you're talking about a true "cruiser" in the modern sense then you will just never make it competitive, regardless of how spangly your sails are. i once saw a cruising boat getting top level coaching at the red funnel easter regatta, they'd put nice sails on and were clearly keen with acceptable boat handling, but that thing was so uncompetitive it hurt. I've never seen it out racing again, which I hope means the owner loved trying racing and bought another racier boat, but I sadly suspect means the owner got disheartened and gave up.

 

[William_H]

Winning races

it takes a whole lot of factors coming together to win. Yes the new sails will make a lot of difference especially if you go for hanked on or better still jibs on a foil for quicker changing. The mid range and stronger wind jibs are more critical than the light wind jib.
But as said you need a clean bottom and sharp crew but mostly a sharp skipper/helmsman. Perhaps you could import a tactician to help you. good luck olewill

 

[onesea]

If your competitors are all cruising boats with cruising sails, stick with that. Don't be the one who starts the arms race...

+1

I have not raced for a whilst but until you are nipping on the heels of the big boys is it worth it? Once your teams is that together you will be thinking about replacing for a newer set?

My view of racing is I have won if I am the highest place boat on the lowest budget .

 

[wotayottie]

Fair enough.

I guess the only other question is - what sort of boat is it? If you're talking about a typical cruiser racer, then it'll be worth it, but in my experience if you're talking about a true "cruiser" in the modern sense then you will just never make it competitive, regardless of how spangly your sails are. .

I would second that. Sometimes when there arent enough IRC boats around to make up a fleet our race officer puts them in with the PY cruisers like me on fixed PY numbers - a sort of faux IRC if you see what I mean. It's pointless really because they just romp away into the distance in anything other than very strong winds.

Its a bit like putting flash alloy wheels and a 6 inch exhaust on a Clio. You'll never make it into an Aston

 

[rob2]

The issue of sails is quite separate from that of the boat itself (There! I've lit the fuse). For any given boat a new suit of sails which set to their designed shape will perform much better than ageing, slightly stretched ones. You will get more speed and less leeway.

In any race, the course and weather conditions will favour a particular type of boat. A long, tidal course may be set such that Leopard will arrive at a tidal gateway too early and have to punch the tide, whereas many club races have the opposite effect as the cruising class arrive at the last leg too late and find themselves going backwards. The RIR is quite notable in that the most successful boats over the years seem to be the Folkboats and derivatives as the tidal regime and usually choppy conditions favour them on their handicap.

You're off to a good start having keen, young crew with dinghy racing experience. How much you want to spend on your new sails is up to you, but new ones will allow you to sail to your handicap.

Rob.

P.S. If you opt for new laminate racing sails, you'll never be satisfied with the old cruising set again - you'll have to buy both.

 

[testmonkey]

classic lines for racing: nothing beats boatspeed.... it's easy to look smart when you're fast... and ceteris paribus of course it'll be easier to be fast with brand new well made racing sails. So - if you can - yes absolutely get new sails. Exotic laminates, 3DL, Carbon - choice is yours and it may make sense to talk to more than one sailmaker...

 

[testmonkey]

You're off to a good start having keen, young crew with dinghy racing experience. How much you want to spend on your new sails is up to you, but new ones will allow you to sail to your handicap.

that keen, young crew with dinghy racing experience will quickly move to the next boat that don't have baggy old dacrons as sails. Get new laminate racing sails that point higher, go faster and actually can be trimmed to an effect and you're more likely to find crew willing to sail with you. Also - with something made of kevlar or carbon flaked to your boom - you're less likely to get those "race boat parking only" comments when docking ahead of a regatta...

 

[wotayottie]

Why has no one thought of weaving Dacron with a grey or yellow thread?