practical size of yacht for myself and wife to sail

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rickit2004

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Hi Guys

I'm lucky enough to be buying a boat for holidays in the Mediterranean. It needs to be big enough to be a live-aboard with room for at least three couples and good for two week trips. I have a couple of options, a cruiser or a yacht. I prefer to go down the route of a yacht as speed isn't important and I see wind power as being environmentally responsible (and more fun). I have sailed in the past, but if I was to go with a yacht I would get training, etc.

I'm thinking I should be looking between 9 and 20 metres and a beam of 4 to 6 metres. I like the look of twin masted. I'm not looking for a racer, but something that I can sail with light help from the wife. I'm happy to install sail winches and what not to make it easy to handle on my own.

So far so good, but it is a dream and I need to ground myself in practicality. I don't expect to go out and sail by myself right off, but I don't want to buy something now then later have to go through the pain of selling and upgrading. I would rather buy the right yacht now and get something smaller to practice and gain experience.

The questions I have are things like what length is practical for a single handed hobby sailor?; Are there obvious bear traps I should be thinking about?; am I mad?; and so on. I'm appealing to both your subjective and objective input.

Thanks, Richard

example of what I'm looking at
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1986/Custom-Mahogany-68-KETCH-2907835/Turkey#.WWFPK5WGMgA
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/21-M-Gulet-[GA21000]-2527418/Turkey#.WWFO_pWGMgA
 
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Assuming this is a genuine enquiry, my first comment would be don't buy a wooden boat! The maintenance cost and workload is ridiculous. Buy a nice sensible GRP production boat from a well-known maker. Second comment is that there's really little need for a ketch rig with today's modern sail-handling systems.

In terms of size, about 12m should give you room for 3 couples for 2 weeks, without being so unmanageable that you'd put your wife off sailing for good.

Others will have differing views, no doubt. One thing you should do before buying is to charter a similar boat and see how you get on with it. The reality is often different from the theory.
 
rickit2004 said:
Hi Guys

I'm lucky enough to be buying a boat for holidays in the Mediterranean. It needs to be big enough to be a live-aboard with room for at least three couples and good for two week trips. I have a couple of options, a cruiser or a yacht. I prefer to go down the route of a yacht as speed isn't important and I see wind power as being environmentally responsible (and more fun). I have sailed in the past, but if I was to go with a yacht I would get training, etc.

I'm thinking I should be looking between 9 and 20 metres and a beam of 4 to 6 metres. I like the look of twin masted. I'm not looking for a racer, but something that I can sail with light help from the wife. I'm happy to install sail winches and what not to make it easy to handle on my own.

So far so good, but it is a dream and I need to ground myself in practicality. I don't expect to go out and sail by myself right off, but I don't want to buy something now then later have to go through the pain of selling and upgrading. I would rather buy the right yacht now and get something smaller to practice and gain experience.

The questions I have are things like what length is practical for a single handed hobby sailor?; Are there obvious bear traps I should be thinking about?; am I mad?; and so on. I'm appealing to both your subjective and objective input.

Thanks, Richard

example of what I'm looking at
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1986/Custom-Mahogany-68-KETCH-2907835/Turkey#.WWFPK5WGMgA
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/21-M-Gulet-[GA21000]-2527418/Turkey#.WWFO_pWGMgA
Click to expand...

How about a Discovery 55, thats advertised as ok for a couple to sail.
 
pvb gives good advice.

I have owned wooden boats for almost half a century, so I speak from experience when I say avoid a wooden boat in the Med and in particular avoid anything locally built on fishing boat principles such as the gulets that you picture - they are money pits.

Buy a standard production boat built in GRP.

Now, you want a boat for three couples for two weeks - my guess is that your guests won't have a lot of sailing experience or enthusiasm for sailing as such, so they won't relish being piled on top of each other and sharing bathrooms etc. So that indicates a fairly big boat with three separate double cabins and "ensuite facilities". That means a boat rather bigger than 12m, which is a fine size for weekend racing with a crew of six but that's not what you plan to be doing!

Catch 22 now rears its head, because such a boat is beyond the practical limit for easy singlehanding, and you have correctly divined Rule One, which is "never, ever, own a boat that you cannot sail on your own, unless you are so rich that you can afford a full time professional crew"[/B

This really is the Golden Rule - well done for working it out - many don't - and it means that either you drop down to two couples or you improve your sailing ability and go for a bigger modern type boat with twin stern cabins and a forecabin.

I strongly endorse pvb's advice to charter a boat in the area first and see how you get on.
 
Good advice so far. Neither of those boats is suitable for you in your position. They are usually run by a professional crew who spend as much time on maintenance as sailing or by experienced people where one at least has excellent practical boat mending skills - but it is a full time job.

I assuming this will be a private boat and you guests will not be paying for their stay except perhaps for food and drink. If you charge them anything then it becomes a charter boat and will have to comply with local regulations plus you and your charter company will require a licence. None of this will be easy to get and the cost will be significant.

Buying a boat in Turkey is very restrictive as you cannot take it (assuming you are EU resident) into EU waters without importing it and paying VAT. You will do better looking in Greece where you will find a good choice of VAT paid boats that can move freely around the EU and visit Turkey.

Follow the advice to charter a boat out there with a skipper so that you can learn a bit about what is involved in owning and using a boat there - it is very different from the UK. If you like it then look for a modern 12-14m boat from one of the big production builders. However, be aware that such things are not cheap to run and you will have to pay all your bills out of your own resources.
 
Tranona said:
Good advice so far. Neither of those boats is suitable for you in your position. They are usually run by a professional crew who spend as much time on maintenance as sailing or by experienced people where one at least has excellent practical boat mending skills - but it is a full time job.

I assuming this will be a private boat and you guests will not be paying for their stay except perhaps for food and drink. If you charge them anything then it becomes a charter boat and will have to comply with local regulations plus you and your charter company will require a licence. None of this will be easy to get and the cost will be significant.

Buying a boat in Turkey is very restrictive as you cannot take it (assuming you are EU resident) into EU waters without importing it and paying VAT. You will do better looking in Greece where you will find a good choice of VAT paid boats that can move freely around the EU and visit Turkey.

Follow the advice to charter a boat out there with a skipper so that you can learn a bit about what is involved in owning and using a boat there - it is very different from the UK. If you like it then look for a modern 12-14m boat from one of the big production builders. However, be aware that such things are not cheap to run and you will have to pay all your bills out of your own resources.
Click to expand...

Paid crew spend much of their time wiping dew off brightwork & polishing, they are not there for the sailing.
 
alant said:
Paid crew spend much of their time wiping dew off brightwork & polishing, they are not there for the sailing.
Click to expand...

Only when the guests are on board, then clearing up the mess they leave behind before they start fixing the things that broke.
 
Two can handle anything up to 72'. So size is non-critical from a handling point of view.
However it becomes increasingly significant when you're looking for a permanaent berth.
Median cruiser lengths have increased significantly during the last 10 years - formerly 34' was considered ample, now 54' is commonplace.
The trouble is that berths and marinas have not kept up with this extension.
So where you intend to keep the boat and to sail is important. In most places berths up to 34' are readily available - beyond that availability drops and prices escalate.
Ideally, with 2 other couples in mind, a 3 cabin boat is ideal - setting your loa at about 37'.
I sail by myself, occasionally with my wife, and or friends -seldom more than 4. My 31' is ideal from that point of view. One in luxury, 2 in comfort, 4 needs considerable social skills and 6 exist in bitter enmity.
GRP is the boatbuilding material of choice, but many swear by aluminium. Steel needs meticulous mainenance and a wooden boat, in the Med, has to be an unending labour of love.

Rather than leaping into a purchase, I'd suggest a few charter holidays, to check if you like the lifestyle, the cruising areas you like the most and the sort of boat size at which you're most comfortable.
 
I managed a Moody 44 single handed, only actually needing help for overnight and longer passages, (but I had been sailing all my life before I bought it in 2006).

13m long by 4m wide.
 
Long ago, the senior partner of the City law firm where I did my articles - a shipping firm incidentally - surprised the sailing members of his junior staff by buying a new Ocean 60 - and employing two crew - for just what you have in mind. Lovely, practical, comfortable boat, ideal for the job.

Then a most surprising thing happened.

He liked sailing...

He really liked it, so he sold the Ocean 60, sacked the friends who he had imagined would be his guests, bought himself a thirty-odd foot Moody and, when he retired, took off in her...
 
It all depends on the depth of your pockets and ability if you have the ability you will know what boat is suitable and you should know your bank balance so just look at brokerage sites.
 
thanks - the GRP is a great suggestion. While I do like the look/romance of the older boat the reality is that I'm not going to have the time to maintain a wooden one. We are also planning on a few charters to test the waters, so to speak.
 
Stavros said:
Have you given any thought as to where you would keep the boat, or have you already got a place in mind.
Click to expand...

Im taking a pragmatic approach,work out what size and type of boat is practical, do a couple of charters and then worry about a berth. it would be somewhere within 2/3 hours of Manchester or Liverpool.
 
Tranona said:
Good advice so far. Neither of those boats is suitable for you in your position. They are usually run by a professional crew who spend as much time on maintenance as sailing or by experienced people where one at least has excellent practical boat mending skills - but it is a full time job.

I assuming this will be a private boat and you guests will not be paying for their stay except perhaps for food and drink. If you charge them anything then it becomes a charter boat and will have to comply with local regulations plus you and your charter company will require a licence. None of this will be easy to get and the cost will be significant.

Buying a boat in Turkey is very restrictive as you cannot take it (assuming you are EU resident) into EU waters without importing it and paying VAT. You will do better looking in Greece where you will find a good choice of VAT paid boats that can move freely around the EU and visit Turkey.

Follow the advice to charter a boat out there with a skipper so that you can learn a bit about what is involved in owning and using a boat there - it is very different from the UK. If you like it then look for a modern 12-14m boat from one of the big production builders. However, be aware that such things are not cheap to run and you will have to pay all your bills out of your own resources.
Click to expand...

great advice, much appreciated.
 
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