Potential liveaboards

[Laffan78]

Hi all,

I'm spending a lot of my lockdown time looking for something I can live aboard and cruise around in, whenever we're eventually allowed... I'm probably gonna have to keep to UK waters for I don't know how long, this year perhaps.

I took a look at a macwester 26 yesterday, it's a very, very rough project, but also very, very cheap. The thing that concerns me is the lack of an engine. I've had a look around and I think I'm gonna have trouble finding a running 20hp diesel to replace it under £1500. Does that sound about right? I'm pretty convinced I should leave the Macwester and save for a couple more months. I've seen some far superior and slightly larger boats (with standing headroom) that only seem to need a lick of paint and some minor work in the 3.5-5k range. I just wanted to check if my guess on the engine is right before I give up on the idea of the mac. I do like the idea of building my small, but liberating home from a POS.

I've noticed there's quite a few wooden hulled boats within that 5k budget as well. I know, I know, but the maintenance! OTOH though, surely being a liveaboard would mean I can jump on those maintenance jobs early, right? Or does it not work that way? Any opinions on wooden liveaboards?

Basically, if you could put any and all advice on second hand diesels and living aboard, I would be a happy man.

Cheers

 

[newtothis]

From what I understand, the accepted lore of the sea is to buy the best boat you can afford, as it will be cheaper than trying to restore a dog.
Wood is great for liveaboards... a good supply in the stove will keep you toasty warm all winter.
Anyone selling you an engineless macwester as a project boat should be paying you to take it away.

 

[C08]

I have never had a wooden boat but having looked at many in boatyards being repaired I am not encouraged as there is lots to do on a boat apart from the hull itself and by and large GRP is relatively trouble free. I think a boat with a working engine is a must regardless of make. Good luck with your search.

 

[Tranona]

Boats are cheap now because they have no real monetary value. This is because the cost of ownership is so high - even if you don't use it. Your annual cost of mooring, storage, insurance is likely to be close to the price being asked for the boat. That is why sellers are so keen to almost give them away. I have just sold a fine old boat (which I had lived aboard in the past) that was in superb condition with a brand new engine that the buyer was able to sail home 250 miles round Lands End to his home. Just £4000 - but my last year's storage and insurance was just shy of £2000!

So you can actually buy a working boat for your budget (but avoid wood), but this is just the down payment on a constant stream of unavoidable outgoings. As for living on board, very few mooring providers will allow you to do this. If you wish to live any sort of life apart from being a lock down hermit you will need access to land based facilities, particularly if you intend working in any type of structured job. This further limits your choice of mooring and increases the price. Many people do live on their boats and some cruise, which is why this forum exists, but rarely do they start from nothing with a sub £5k boat and no experience.

It sounds romantic to have a boat and wander round the coast stopping here and there. Remember the weather is against you for 6 or 7 months of the year, and apart from a small number of locations mainly on the east and south coast, the British coastline is a very inhospitable place.

 

[AndrewB]

I stuck a 6hp outboard on the back of a Macwester 26 many years ago. So you could go that route, provided you don't mind travelling slow. But waiting a bit for something better sounds a really good idea. Bear in mind that any old boat is likely to have an old engine. They can be kept going, provided you are reasonably mechanically minded and prepared to scour around for second-hand spares.

Don' t let anyone talk you into buying wood. Strictly for hobbyists.

 

[Kelpie]

20hp sounds a bit more than strictly necessary for a 26ft boat. Easiest and cheapest route would be an outboard on a transom bracket. Almost certainly a much easier installation job- some random secondhand diesel is unlikely to fit without major modifications.

Wooden boats are lovely, I'm glad other people own them so I can enjoy looking at them. Just because you live aboard one doesn't mean you can keep on top of all the maintenance- there's plenty of wood on the outside and under the waterline.

As others have alluded to, choosing the boat needs to be done with your usage and location in mind. A small boat can be fine but you become more reliant on shore side facilities. A bigger boat allows you to be a bit more self sufficient, trading mooring costs for boat costs.

Read, watch, learn, and stay enthusiastic

 

[Laffan78]

Boats are cheap now because they have no real monetary value. This is because the cost of ownership is so high - even if you don't use it. Your annual cost of mooring, storage, insurance is likely to be close to the price being asked for the boat. That is why sellers are so keen to almost give them away. I have just sold a fine old boat (which I had lived aboard in the past) that was in superb condition with a brand new engine that the buyer was able to sail home 250 miles round Lands End to his home. Just £4000 - but my last year's storage and insurance was just shy of £2000!

So you can actually buy a working boat for your budget (but avoid wood), but this is just the down payment on a constant stream of unavoidable outgoings. As for living on board, very few mooring providers will allow you to do this. If you wish to live any sort of life apart from being a lock down hermit you will need access to land based facilities, particularly if you intend working in any type of structured job. This further limits your choice of mooring and increases the price. Many people do live on their boats and some cruise, which is why this forum exists, but rarely do they start from nothing with a sub £5k boat and no experience.

It sounds romantic to have a boat and wander round the coast stopping here and there. Remember the weather is against you for 6 or 7 months of the year, and apart from a small number of locations mainly on the east and south coast, the British coastline is a very inhospitable place.

£2000 a year is still far cheaper than renting even a small room. Plus, I'd rather not carry on renting. I'm pretty sure there's a couple of places that do allow it in Southampton and in Poole Harbour. Both will be fine for me.

I stuck a 6hp outboard on the back of a Macwester 26 many years ago. So you could go that route, provided you don't mind travelling slow. But waiting a bit for something better sounds a really good idea. Bear in mind that any old boat is likely to have an old engine. They can be kept going, provided you are reasonably mechanically minded and prepared to scour around for second-hand spares.

Don' t let anyone talk you into buying wood. Strictly for hobbyists.

Being okay with going slow is a prerequisite for owning a macwester isn't it?

20hp sounds a bit more than strictly necessary for a 26ft boat. Easiest and cheapest route would be an outboard on a transom bracket. Almost certainly a much easier installation job- some random secondhand diesel is unlikely to fit without major modifications.

Wooden boats are lovely, I'm glad other people own them so I can enjoy looking at them. Just because you live aboard one doesn't mean you can keep on top of all the maintenance- there's plenty of wood on the outside and under the waterline.

As others have alluded to, choosing the boat needs to be done with your usage and location in mind. A small boat can be fine but you become more reliant on shore side facilities. A bigger boat allows you to be a bit more self sufficient, trading mooring costs for boat costs.

Read, watch, learn, and stay enthusiastic

Well, you've hit the nail on the head there actually. The issue being, the previous owner installed a yanmar 20hp engine in it.


Cheers for all the advice. TBH I was half hoping there'd be some optimistic soul who would tell me to go for the mac. But, I've seen a couple of 29ft van de stadts and a contest 29 within budget so I don't think I'll have any real trouble finding something both more liveable and better sailing when the time comes.

 

[Tranona]

Don't know anywhere in Poole that would allow a liveaboard in a clapped out old Macwester 26. My £2k (which was in Poole in the cheapest yard) was just for storage for a 26'. A berth would be almost double that ( a berth in the same yard is £3600 pa payable in advance). It is highly unlikely that the yard where the Mac is lying will allow you to live on it, so even if you can find somewhere to take you how are you going to get the boat there if it has no motor and is not seaworthy? I think you will find that costs are far higher than you could ever imagine and that living on an old worn out boat is not cheaper than living on land unless you are prepared to live like a hermit in a mud berth up a creek in a remote part of the country. Owning a boat as I pointed out is an ongoing liability. Once you own it you can't avoid the fixed costs. Unless it is seaworthy so that you can sail it elsewhere you are stuck with paying the bills. If you can't pay you will have extreme difficulty in selling it on. As you have seen old boats fetch very little money and if they are not functioning as boats just about worthless.

I should add that until you have experienced it, it is difficult to imagine how tough it is living on a small boat in the winter in the UK. There are of course many who do but you will find those that do it successfully have much bigger boats and are geared up to the conditions with heating, good electrical systems, insulation, good access to shoreside facilities etc. This does not come cheap.

I would respectfully suggest that if you want to live on the margins you consider a camper van or a caravan.

 

[BobnLesley]

As noted earlier, wood is for hobbyists and 'cheap' boats rarely are.
Save a few more quid and buy yourself something with a grp hull and a working inboard engine; in the current market and being patient, you should find a 26-28' boat for £5k and probably less; as someone who's been there and done that, I'd suggest that you Google: 'Albin Vega', you'll not find a better bag for your buck, surprisingly generous living space, there are plenty around and as a novice the active owners association will likely prove helpful.

 

[ashtead]

One other thing to mention about living aboard is that all thosedomestic tasks take far longer in a boat environment so while it’s perfectly pleasant to spend a few days say working from homie boat in the summer it becomes much less attractive in winter with cold and damp. It can be done but maybe watch a few u tube videos to see how it’s achieved. See Sailing RAN vid-they have a 460 Najad and even with this it doesn’t always look fun . Why not buy a cheap boat somewhere hotter off someone whose retiring from such like though if you do want to tick it off bucket list.

 

[38mess]

At this time of year with mooring fee's and insurance due you might find someone giving a boat away, as in effect they would be saving money by getting rid of it.
You have to keep looking and be lucky.
But you don't want to be in the vendors position in a year or two.
My first boat was wooden, they take a lot of TLC. Good luck in your hunt

 

[V1701]

Also bear in mind that you start paying for storage as soon as you take ownership. Any work will be a lot more expensive and time consuming than you think which invariably makes "projects" more expensive than viable boats so leave that to George Clarke with his small spaces on the telly. Never mention living aboard but above all go for it, it's a great life...

 

[jaydee1976]

if the boats really cheap look at electric drive.. I got a kingfisher 30 with a running diesel engine, well it just about runs but is getting replaced next year with electric drive.. but as a first boat its better to find one with a running engine

 

[Laffan78]

if the boats really cheap look at electric drive.. I got a kingfisher 30 with a running diesel engine, well it just about runs but is getting replaced next year with electric drive.. but as a first boat its better to find one with a running engine

I was actually considering that before I even posted on here but didn't expect a warm response from it! It's a great idea though. Especially if you consider the value of regen. However, that's a whole other kettle of fish isn't it?

 

[Tranona]

I was actually considering that before I even posted on here but didn't expect a warm response from it! It's a great idea though. Especially if you consider the value of regen. However, that's a whole other kettle of fish isn't it?

Sorry, sounds a good idea but a complete non starter. Great minds have applied themselves developing electric drives for yachts (and an even greater number of less than great minds who think it is easy). While a small number have built small boats with electric, the typical cost is more than twice an equivalent diesel , requires large expensive batteries, have limited range and only works if you have an on shore charging facility. Virtually nobody has achieved meaningful regeneration, and the only ones that look promising are incredibly expensive. Think £70 premium over a diesel engine in the same boat - a big boat 46', but you need speed to get any regeneration and a sophisticated propeller that can be changed automatically from propulsion mode to regeneration mode. All this is a different world from sticking an electric motor in an old clapped out boat.

A boat like a Macwester 26, or a Centaur, Sabre, Snapdragon or any number of 25-30' family cruisers from the 70s make satisfactory basic liveaboards. There are plenty around in the £3-7k range, fully functional with working engines. With this sort of boat you can be flexible where you take it. Buying a project boat effectively ties you to the location of the boat and most yards will not permit you to live aboard. As others have said once you own the boat you are liable for all the costs until you find somebody to buy it off you when you have found out how impractical it is.

 

[Lucy52]

That would be £70K premium for electric drive on a boat recently discussed on the forum here.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, that is right. And in the same thread there is a good account of a new and much simpler electric installation in a Sadler 29 which cost £10k. On small boats like a Cornish Shrimper electric drive costa about £9k rather than the £5k of the diesel. Many have tried putting simple industrial electric motors in place of old diesels. None are satisfactory as although they may move the boat slowly in flat water the size of battery bank required for more than a couple of hours running is huge in both size and cost.

Given that you can buy a fully functioning diesel engined boat of the size the OP is looking at for less than the cost of an electric motor, control and charging systems and batteries why even think about it. Particularly as the aim is to live at the lowest cost you can!

 

[Kelpie]

Sailing Uma are amongst the best known proponents of electric propulsion in a cruising yacht. They initially fitted a secondhand forklift motor, but later upgraded to a proper system with brushless motor and lithium batteries. What they have done is very impressive and clearly works for them, but it's certainly not cheap, nor does it do everything a diesel can do.

 

[V1701]

Having lived on mostly small sailboats full time in the UK for the last 10 years I would suggest that it would be worth trying to get a boat with a double skinned hull for their superior insulation/quietness/lack of condensation. Sadlers and etaps and they're good boats, for one person a Sadler 29 or an etap 28 would be a great economical liveaboard. One of the boats I had was a Dufour 29 which had a moulded headlining which helped in this respect as well, much better than the dreaded foam backed vinyl...

 

[jaydee1976]

Sailing Uma are amongst the best known proponents of electric propulsion in a cruising yacht. They initially fitted a secondhand forklift motor, but later upgraded to a proper system with brushless motor and lithium batteries. What they have done is very impressive and clearly works for them, but it's certainly not cheap, nor does it do everything a diesel can do.

thats why i bought my kingfisher to do simlar... my other boat has a outboard in a dropwell which is electric driven and equal to about 4hp. remember in a sailing yacht you use the sails 99% of the time with engine for marina use or if you need more speed but on electric drive you get regen, I am ok with just 400ah of AGM batteries and can go from river deben up to hull ok without running out of battery power as i use my sails a lot.