Possible to sell non-VAT paid, USA flagged boat in EU?

[jimthomsen]

We are a USA flagged sailboat, newly arrived in the Med. Is it possible to list our boat for sale in the EU without paying VAT first?

I think I understand that some brokers in the UK are "bonded warehouses" that can list a non-VAT boat for sale, dealing with the VAT at the time of sale.

But I have had a hard time finding out more about this possibility in other countries of the EU.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[macd]

VAT may not be the only issue. If the boat is not RCD*-plated (or one of the exemptions), it may not be 'placed on the market' in the EEA (which is basically EU plus Norway).

Your boat is unlikely to be one of the exemptions if it has spent it's life in the US (unless, of course, it was builtin the EEA). However, some US-built craft are RCD-plated -- mainly those from manufacturers who routinely export to Europe (plus, I think, boats like US-built Benes).

* Recreational Craft Directive

P.S. Ah...I see it's a Rassy. Ignore the above and good luck.

Regarding VAT, I'd be very surprised if you are not allowed to sell her but am not at all sure whether there's a prescribed sequence of events in the case you describe. I'm sure one of the resident VAT experts will be along to advise.

 

[pvb]

As a non-EU citizen, you can "temporarily import" your boat into the EU VAT area without paying VAT, and use it for up to 18 months. So the answer is that you can certainly list it for sale without paying VAT. See http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custom...orts/temporary_importation/article_994_en.htm for more details.

 

[AndrewB]

Have a read of the HMRC advice in section 5 here: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...rtyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000289#P233_27770.

As I understand it, you lose the right to normal temporary importation relief once you decide to sell, but other forms of VAT relief are available under certain conditions (section 5.12)*, most easily applied for through a broker. The new owner can also apply for 'sailaway' VAT relief if he intends to re-export the yacht outside the EU within six months. However, following a recent change, sailaway relief is not available to an EU resident, unless the yacht is exported on his behalf rather than by him.

So if you sell in the EU to an EU resident, yes, in effect you must allow for VAT having to be paid, though it may be the buyer who actually pays.

Incidentally, to correct a mistake that is often made in these threads, the age of the yacht is immaterial, nor would it help if VAT had originally been paid on this yacht, assuming you bought it outside the EU.

P.S. *This is different from the situation in USA and Australia where temporary importation relief from duty is automatically lost when the yacht is advertised for sale.

 

[Woodlouse]

You might struggle to sell it in the EU if the new owner is going to have to stump up for the VAT too. Have you considered shipping it back to the States and selling there? The cost of shipping might very easily be less than the amount you'd have to drop the price by to shift it in Europe.

 

[zambant]

There is a user here jonic who is a broker.
His company - JR Yachts brokerage boats at a very reasonable rate.
He is extremely professional and a real font of knowledge.
In my opinion you could do no better than contacting him for PROPER advice and sell your boat through him.

I have no connection other than being a VERY satisfied customer.

Good luck
John

http://www.jryachts.com/buyers-guide may be of use to you as a seller

 

[jimbaerselman]

One possiblity is to leave the EU and put the boat up for sale . . . base it in Jersey (Channel Islands, UK, not EU) perhaps.

A non-EU resident purchaser could then take the boat over, and later enter the EU under temporary import regulations, no VAT payable. An EU resident purchaser would have to decide whether they wanted to use the boat within the EU (in which case they'd have to import the boat and pay VAT) or wished to take the boat around the world (no VAT payable outside the EU).

Whatever, the price you get will reflect the inconvenience of not being VAT paid . . .

 

[macd]

Jim, the OP seems to be in southern Spain, so Gib might be more convenient than the Channel Islands. Brokers there would probably be very familiar with the circumstances he describes.

 

[drakes drum]

VAT is a tax on the transaction. Until you sell the boat there is no transaction unless you have it in the EU for so long that it counts as an import anyway. If that happens you will have to pay the taxes but then you wont have taxes to pay when you do sell it. Those import rules are a bit more difficult and variable - the french for example, being anti american anyway - are very awkward about US boats coming in and staying.

 

[alant]

We are a USA flagged sailboat, newly arrived in the Med. Is it possible to list our boat for sale in the EU without paying VAT first?

I think I understand that some brokers in the UK are "bonded warehouses" that can list a non-VAT boat for sale, dealing with the VAT at the time of sale.

But I have had a hard time finding out more about this possibility in other countries of the EU.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Jim

I delivered US built Catalina 42, from Hamble to Gibraltar
The owner had bought it in Australia on the internet unseen, shipped it to UK, where it was held in bond, until fit enough to sail.
We took it to GiB (still EEC). He intended sailing it to Morocco to use the 18 month rule & not pay vat.

 

[Tranona]

I delivered US built Catalina 42, from Hamble to Gibraltar
The owner had bought it in Australia on the internet unseen, shipped it to UK, where it was held in bond, until fit enough to sail.
We took it to GiB (still EEC). He intended sailing it to Morocco to use the 18 month rule & not pay vat.

Presumably he is a non EU resident nd the boat is registered outside the EU.

 

[charles_reed]

Two very good points made by Zambant & Jim Baersalman. (Advice from Jonic and offer for sale outside EU)

Look outside the EU (Turkey), I doubt, once the maze of EU regulation has been negotiated there will be any difficulty in selling.

 

[macd]

VAT is a tax on the transaction. Until you sell the boat there is no transaction unless you have it in the EU for so long that it counts as an import anyway. If that happens you will have to pay the taxes but then you wont have taxes to pay when you do sell it. Those import rules are a bit more difficult and variable - the french for example, being anti american anyway - are very awkward about US boats coming in and staying.

1. It may be that the boat's being offered for sale in the EU is a VAT event. I say 'may be' because I just don't know, but it would seem to signal an intention to bring it permanently into the EU, and a possible suspension of its current (I presume) 'temporary importation' status. But does it really matter either way?: whether VAT is paid on import or sale, it will be paid (if it ends up in the EU), but only once, and the asking price will surely reflect the point at which that happens.

2. The French can breathe easy. It seems to be a Rassy.

3. And re Charles' post, #12: yes, the circumstances the OP describes are commonplace in Turkey and ought to be no obstacle to sale (subject to price, of course). Brokers there will be thoroughly familiar with them. As they will, viz earlier posts, in Gib and the Channel Islands. Selling in any of them should of itself place no great impediment to an EU buyer, whilst keeping the price attractive to buyers from outside the EU.

 

[alant]

Presumably he is a non EU resident nd the boat is registered outside the EU.

He is/was UK resident & boat had a blue ensign.

 

[Tranona]

He is/was UK resident & boat had a blue ensign.

Then he probably can't make use of the "18 months" rule, which is only available for temporary importation by non EU residents. If he is indeed EU resident then VAT is payable at the first state of entry into the EU - and it must comply with the RCD.