Portugal requirement to carry flares

[webcraft]

.
I have an EPIRB, Garmin InReach, Odeo Electronioc Flare.

NO desire to carry pyrotechnics, but I believe it is a requirement for visiting yachts in Portugal.

Am I likely to get inspected, and would I get away with Coastal pack plus the Odeo?

- W

 

[LittleSister]

Wear a tie-die T shirt and beads, and they'll just assume you have the flares.

I'll get my (Afghan) coat . . .

 

[cherod]

if you have nae flares , fit you gonna walk on ?

 

[Beneteau381]

.
I have an EPIRB, Garmin InReach, Odeo Electronioc Flare.

NO desire to carry pyrotechnics, but I believe it is a requirement for visiting yachts in Portugal.

Am I likely to get inspected, and would I get away with Coastal pack plus the Odeo?

- W

Ive been there for 6 years, never been inspected, however I originally had UK requirements on board, then Portugal inshore requirements, I then bought the offshore requirement pack from a chandlers in Malaga, they do delivery to Portugal. It was only just over €200.

 

[25931]

Ive been there for 6 years, never been inspected, however I originally had UK requirements on board, then Portugal inshore requirements, I then bought the offshore requirement pack from a chandlers in Malaga, they do delivery to Portugal. It was only just over €200.

As has been discussed various times Portuguese Law requires all vessels not in transit to comply with all safety regs. Rarely enforced but can carry heavy fine.

 

[nortada]

As has been discussed various times Portuguese Law requires all vessels not in transit to comply with all safety regs. Rarely enforced but can carry heavy fine.

In the past boats occasionally were subjected to safety checks but I am not aware of many fines. Rather - Getit sorted soon!

This year, apart from checking for conformity to the Covid 19 rules, I have not heard of any equipment checks? No doubt somebody will be along to correct me.

Back to thread - flares.

Very difficult to get flares in Portugal but I understand that Ayamar Chandlery in Ayamonte is now licensed to sell them?

 

[sailaboutvic]

There was a time when the Portuguese CG expected every boat to apply there rules , until the RYA step in and unless things have change unless yournin Portugal more then 180 days their safety rules don't apply .

Does someone know different?

 

[LittleSister]

unless things have change unless yournin Portugal more then 180 days their safety rules don't apply

I am not familiar with the particularities of Portugal, but my understanding is that strictly speaking any country's 'rules apply' when you are in their waters. By international maritime agreement such rules are waived for vessels on 'innocent passage' (i.e. passing through their waters without stopping in order to get somewhere else).

Typically, in practice most requirements will also be waived (informally) for boats on a temporary visit that includes visiting ports, etc. (But watch out for exceptions such as the French rules on out of date flares, and don't expect it in countries less used to visiting yachts).

I imagine that the RYA is much more likely to have persuaded Portugal to instigate (or make more consistent across the country) such an informal waiver for visiting yachts (and perhaps even longer staying UK registered leisure vessels), than they would have convinced Portugal either that it's understanding of its own law was wrong, or to pass a new law explicitly exempting visitors.

 

[sailaboutvic]

It's a miff that boats only need to apply the rules of their flag , any country can have their own laws or even bylaws .
Just two days ago while returning back to the boat in S O France we was approach by local police rib and told that someone at all times got to be on board while the boat on anchor , not sure how that work out of your a solo sailor didn't bother to argu it out as we was about to leave any way , now that's the second time with a month and a half in two different countries, last time it was more ridiculous, we was on the quay in Oibla Sardinia and told the same , that time I did ask where could we fine the rule in writing , never got anrespond all the sudden he didn't under stand English .
Any way going back to Portugal and the RYA , I know at the time some people did get fined and that's while the RYA stepped in

 

[25931]

I am reasonably sure that the law is still in force and although the Policia Maritima appear to be fairly relaxed I don´t run the risk. The requirements are sensible (apart, perhaps, a signaling mirror)

 

[nortada]

It's a miff that boats only need to apply the rules of their flag , any country can have their own laws or even bylaws .
Just two days ago while returning back to the boat in S O France we was approach by local police rib and told that someone at all times got to be on board while the boat on anchor , not sure how that work out of your a solo sailor didn't bother to argu it out as we was about to leave any way , now that's the second time with a month and a half in two different countries, last time it was more ridiculous, we was on the quay in Oibla Sardinia and told the same , that time I did ask where could we fine the rule in writing , never got anrespond all the sudden he didn't under stand English .
Any way going back to Portugal and the RYA , I know at the time some people did get fined and that's while the RYA stepped in

You sure?

All this happened about 5or 6 years ago.

Rumour had it that fines were issued but although I met plenty who were stopped. Never met anybody who was fined.

And as for Portugal acting on RYA or CA advice - doesn’t sound too much like the Portugal I know?

 

[Graham376]

I am reasonably sure that the law is still in force and although the Policia Maritima appear to be fairly relaxed I don´t run the risk. The requirements are sensible (apart, perhaps, a signaling mirror)

The law's still in force. Going back maybe 8 or 9 years, Navy & PM were stopping foreign boats (all nationalities) and inspecting safety equipment. I've never met anyone fined but have met a couple who were diverted to port, one to have life raft repacked and another to buy flares - for which permission/certificate from police required.

After various complaints, RYA intervened and discussions with Lisbon head office was, boats here >6 months have to comply. Equipment list is on Lagos Navigators site. Laser flares not recognised. Fire extinguishers have to be serviced annually by approved centre and CO2 banned. In general, any foreign boat which has arrived by sea is counted as ocean going so has to be equipped for that category. In 14 years, I've only been asked for passport, insurance and SSR.

Stop, inspect and fine the locals is the favourite sport here for Policia Maritima and I'm told they have targets to meet, same as traffic cops. We were stopped two days running for equipment checks on a local dive rib, coming back into the Ria Formosa . Don't get caught fishing without a license and with everyone on deck wearing a life jacket.

 

[sailaboutvic]

You sure?

All this happened about 5or 6 years ago.

Rumour had it that fines were issued but although I met plenty who were stopped. Never met anybody who was fined.

And as for Portugal acting on RYA or CA advice - doesn’t sound too much like the Portugal I know?

Yes may been a bit longer then what I said but it definitely happened ,
As far as I know it still stands .
Last time we was in Portugal we had no problem , was visit once up the Gar river with both Portuguese and Spanish on the same rib , only interested in passport where we come from and where we going .

 

[srm]

2015, when checking in to Ilha Santa Maria, Azores, after paperwork inspected at marina office P.M. officer came to the boat and asked to see flares, and fire extinguishers. No annual inspection card on the one extinguisher I handed him so he asked when I had bought it. Accepted 'last year'. He also looked at each flare to check expiry date.
Flares now well out of date but have not managed to get replacements here.

 

[greeny]

.
I have an EPIRB, Garmin InReach, Odeo Electronioc Flare.

NO desire to carry pyrotechnics, but I believe it is a requirement for visiting yachts in Portugal.

Am I likely to get inspected, and would I get away with Coastal pack plus the Odeo?

- W

You don't say whether you're planning to stay here or just passing through.
At the risk of being corrected by the forum lawyers and tooth suckers I will give you my take and understanding of the situation here in Portugal right now based on 18yrs of being here with various boats.
In your situation, if I was on "innocent passage" I would not bother with getting flares.
If I was staying I would.
If you are coming in by sea you will be considered ocean class and would need to have the ocean requirement for flares officially.

You're very unlikely to get inspected but if you do it's cheaper to have them, than to get fined for each and every item you do not have.
They generally don't bother UK boats too much but if you had an "incident" , they would follow it up with a full inspection. One thing to note is that if you have safety gear onboard it needs to be "in date" tested. An out of date item is breaking the rules and can result in a fine.

I have a UK ssr boat here, I live here. I equip to Portuguese requirements because it means there is no hassle if you do get inspected and quite frankly, most of what they ask for makes sense.

If you are unfortunate enough to get inspected here, it very much depends on what area jurisdiction you are in and the mood of the man on the day. Different areas have different interpretations of the rules and can apply them differently. As a foreigner, there is very little room for argument, you just pay the fine and get on with life. Best approach is to smile and be nice to them, whatever they pick on. Confrontation is best avoided. You normally lose.
As I said before though, you are very unlikely to be inspected at all unless you do something stupid to attract their attention.

 

[Beneteau381]

You don't say whether you're planning to stay here or just passing through.
At the risk of being corrected by the forum lawyers and tooth suckers I will give you my take and understanding of the situation here in Portugal right now based on 18yrs of being here with various boats.
In your situation, if I was on "innocent passage" I would not bother with getting flares.
If I was staying I would.
If you are coming in by sea you will be considered ocean class and would need to have the ocean requirement for flares officially.

You're very unlikely to get inspected but if you do it's cheaper to have them, than to get fined for each and every item you do not have.
They generally don't bother UK boats too much but if you had an "incident" , they would follow it up with a full inspection. One thing to note is that if you have safety gear onboard it needs to be "in date" tested. An out of date item is breaking the rules and can result in a fine.

I have a UK ssr boat here, I live here. I equip to Portuguese requirements because it means there is no hassle if you do get inspected and quite frankly, most of what they ask for makes sense.

If you are unfortunate enough to get inspected here, it very much depends on what area jurisdiction you are in and the mood of the man on the day. Different areas have different interpretations of the rules and can apply them differently. As a foreigner, there is very little room for argument, you just pay the fine and get on with life. Best approach is to smile and be nice to them, whatever they pick on. Confrontation is best avoided. You normally lose.
As I said before though, you are very unlikely to be inspected at all unless you do something stupid to attract their attention.

Nail on head!

 

[25931]

Greeny is right in everything. Local interpretation has always made life interesting here. In 1982 the head lad in Vilamoura would not accept my Yachtmaster Cert. because he had never seen one, he wanted an ICC. Being a bit pissd off as I was living on the boat ( and teaching the Algarves first firemen scuba divers ) I went to Lisboa and complained to his boss and returned to find a very subdued young man.

 

[Graham376]

You're very unlikely to get inspected but if you do it's cheaper to have them, than to get fined for each and every item you do not have.
They generally don't bother UK boats too much but if you had an "incident" , they would follow it up with a full inspection. One thing to note is that if you have safety gear onboard it needs to be "in date" tested. An out of date item is breaking the rules and can result in a fine.

Agree with all you said. All I would add is that fines here can be draconian, not a slap on the wrist. District police chief warned us that failure to have life jackets in tender is an offence for which the standard fine is €250 per person carried. They don't have to be worn so we carry them in seat bag but see lots without them and have never heard of a visitor fined. As Greeny says above, every individual item out of date or not carried is a fine.

 

[sailaboutvic]

If I may add not re Portugal as last time we was there was 10 years ago ,
every thing greeny said apply almost everywhere , rules are interpretation by different officials in they own way but some time you need to know what they are as some will add stuff on .
Like the CG guy in Oibla who said while we was on the quay there always have to be someone on board , when asked to show us where it's written all the sudden he couldn't understand English , when we question it in the CG office the three guys one with strips had no idea what we on about .
Mostly we just say yes sir three bags full sir but there been times when I have question what they saying with a smile and respectful.

 

[DownWest]

I had a few probs in Portugal with local enthusiasm laying on fines, some quite eye watering. As above, if you think they are not in line, get above the local operative and talk to senior people.
Client clearly breached the rules bulldozing his land on the cliff top. That required permission from the Hidraulica, who control all the coastline and estuaries.
I found that if you sent a letter to the authority to retrospectivley grant permission, it stalled the local process. Do they ever reply to such stuff, no. So the local process went in the bin, no fine. Since I knew the local guys, they were quite disappointed at not getting their 'share', but no grudge held.
The client had 8 hcts on the sea front just west of Albufeira, so was viewed as wealthy enough to pay a few 'contributions'.
I erected a decent flag mast for them (shipping co) think of a square rigger job with a yard and gaff about 15 mt tall. Got another visit from the coasties. You have flown another flag higher than the Portuguese one, that is a finable offence. Seems that they had flown their house flag at the top and the Portuguese on the yard. Cheap enough, so paid that one and told client not do it again. He sighed, but agreed.