Please forgive me but this is a genuine anchor question

[Colvic Watson]

Please forgive me but this is a genuine anchor question:

We have to replace the windlass on The Kipper and she carries a 60lb genuine CQR, the advice on a previous thread was that 8mm chain is OK but 10mm better. The issue now comes from the CQR - at 60lb it is above the rated maximum anchor weight for all the sub £800 windlasses

We mustn't skimp on anchor size so I thought about using a Fortress as a main anchor, it would allow us to go up a size above the recommended one for our displacement whilst keeping within the windlass weight lifting capacity. I think we'd keep the CQR for that time when it blows up an real stink and we need something massive! The Fortress has great reviews but is it really a viable main anchor?

34' and 13 tons displacement Colvic Watson

 

[NormanS]

Please forgive me but this is a genuine anchor question:

We have to replace the windlass on The Kipper and she carries a 60lb genuine CQR, the advice on a previous thread was that 8mm chain is OK but 10mm better. The issue now comes from the CQR - at 60lb it is above the rated maximum anchor weight for all the sub £800 windlasses

We mustn't skimp on anchor size so I thought about using a Fortress as a main anchor, it would allow us to go up a size above the recommended one for our displacement whilst keeping within the windlass weight lifting capacity. I think we'd keep the CQR for that time when it blows up an real stink and we need something massive! The Fortress has great reviews but is it really a viable main anchor?

34" and 13 tons displacement Colvic Watson

Fortress / Danforth type anchors have good holding until you get a major wind / tide shift. It depends on your type of anchoring whether that's a problem or not. I would recommend a windlass suitable for the size of your boat, rather than the size of your pocket.

 

[trapezeartist]

34 inches? Is that LOA or LWL?

PS These are not genuine questions so feel free to ignore me.

 

[Colvic Watson]

34 inches? Is that LOA or LWL?

PS These are not genuine questions so feel free to ignore me.

LOA of course What kind of boat has a 34 inch waterline?

 

[Colvic Watson]

I would recommend a windlass suitable for the size of your boat, rather than the size of your pocket.

I agree, but my pocket isn't bottomless, if that doesn't sound too kinky. We anchor very rarely but would like to do more of it, we won't do any without a windlass, those days are gone, so this is a compromise, like most things for us between usability and available finances.

 

[Seagreen]

LOA of course What kind of boat has a 34 inch waterline?

I've an old pond yacht in the attic awaiting "restoration" or the bin. That's a bit less that 34". Does this help in any way?

 

[LittleSister]

I don't know much about windlasses, and I'm puzzled by the 'max anchor weight' limit. Surely the differences in anchor weight are not a big factor compared to the pull required to overcome the holding and break the anchor out? Even the differences in weight between 8mm and 10mm chain would be greater, I would guess, then any likely variation in the weight of anchors you might use.

Or is, perhaps, the anchor weight limit being used as a proxy for the likely anchor holding power capability of the windlass? In which case your proposed switch to a lighter weight but equally (or better) grippy Fortress would still, in theory, be too much for the cheaper windlasses.

 

[Delfin]

Please forgive me but this is a genuine anchor question:

We have to replace the windlass on The Kipper and she carries a 60lb genuine CQR, the advice on a previous thread was that 8mm chain is OK but 10mm better. The issue now comes from the CQR - at 60lb it is above the rated maximum anchor weight for all the sub £800 windlasses

We mustn't skimp on anchor size so I thought about using a Fortress as a main anchor, it would allow us to go up a size above the recommended one for our displacement whilst keeping within the windlass weight lifting capacity. I think we'd keep the CQR for that time when it blows up an real stink and we need something massive! The Fortress has great reviews but is it really a viable main anchor?

34' and 13 tons displacement Colvic Watson

The Fortress is a very viable main anchor, used by the Coast Guard in the U.S., not because they care about weight, but because it holds extremely well. The complaints about popping loose in a wind shift are not that well based in fact,IMHO. In a gradual shift of wind or tide, my experience with this type of anchor is that it shifts. In a sudden shift, perhaps it might be different, but in 40 years of cruising I can't really think of a time when this has happened to me from Alaska to Mexico to Hawaii. Course if I had the anchor whose name cannot be mentioned I might just bend the thing in a sudden shift, but since I have no practical experience with that anchor (whose name cannot be uttered) I can't really say.

 

[Sybarite]

Please forgive me but this is a genuine anchor question:

We have to replace the windlass on The Kipper and she carries a 60lb genuine CQR, the advice on a previous thread was that 8mm chain is OK but 10mm better. The issue now comes from the CQR - at 60lb it is above the rated maximum anchor weight for all the sub £800 windlasses

We mustn't skimp on anchor size so I thought about using a Fortress as a main anchor, it would allow us to go up a size above the recommended one for our displacement whilst keeping within the windlass weight lifting capacity. I think we'd keep the CQR for that time when it blows up an real stink and we need something massive! The Fortress has great reviews but is it really a viable main anchor?

34' and 13 tons displacement Colvic Watson

The Fortress has a very good reputation but have a look at a Kobra 2. It was deemed best value for money in a recent French test.

Fortress held excellently but suffered from a bending of the flukes at extreme weights (equivalent hurricane).

Best overall was the Spade but that which cannot be mentionned wasn't in the group.

 

[PaulJ]

Ummm...... 34ft loa and 13tons....... A 60lb anchor is somewhat over the top. For my 39ft boat with a displacement of anything up to 19tons, the recommended size anchor was 45lbs and it worked just fine but I had a 55lb Delta which I bought on ebay so I have been using that for the last five years in all kinds of bottom and some very strong winds and it has been totally satisfacory.

For a 34 footer, I would have thought a 35lb anchor would be quite enough, 45lb if you want to sleep better but that should be the maximum.

The Fortress is a fine anchor and I have one as a kedge but it does have it's limitations as mentioned by others and for your "working hook" I would not hesitate to recommend a Delta. By all means keep your 60lber on board........ I have given a 60lb Bruce a free ride most of the way round the World!

 

[snowleopard]

Ummm...... 34ft loa and 13tons....... A 60lb anchor is somewhat over the top.

60 lb on a 34 ft boat is more than a little over the top. According to the table

it's 3 sizes too big. Even given your high displacement for length it's massive overkill.

My 40 footer has been anchored in a lot of places on a 16 kg Delta with no problems. The Kobra is virtually identical and you can get one of those for £120.

As for using a Fortress as a main anchor, no way. - and I have 2 of them. Once they set they are fantastic but I have had quite a few problems getting them to set in the first place. They are great for dismantling and stowing in the bottom of a locker but I have no idea how you'd get one to stow on a bow roller.

Once you accept that you don't need the same size of anchor as a 60+ footer, the chain and windlass problem becomes much simpler. 8mm chain and a 1000w windlass will do fine. Remember that the windlass is for lifting the chain, not hauling you up to the anchor. You should motor forward untill over the anchor. When working singlehanded from the foredeck I wind in until the chain starts to straighten then stop and let the weight of the chain pull me forwards. As it comes slack again I take in a bit more. It only takes a couple of minutes.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Thanks guys, you've cut through the mist on this one. Great to have some real world experience as well as the theory.

Simon

 

[Strathglass]

The Fortress has a very good reputation but have a look at a Kobra 2. It was deemed best value for money in a recent French test.

Fortress held excellently but suffered from a bending of the flukes at extreme weights (equivalent hurricane).

Best overall was the Spade but that which cannot be mentionned wasn't in the group.

I have a Kobra 2 it is the 12kg one. (Boat 33ft 5 tons)
VERY impressed with it in strong winds it saved the boat from some rocks when I had mooring problems.

 

[Blueboatman]

Re The Lazy Kipper

There is no such thing as an anchor that is too big, in my experience.

I have an idea , pm sent

 

[Hoolie]

Marine DNA have Kobra 2 anchors on offer this month - the 16kg is £94.95.

No connection, but seriously tempted

 

[Sybarite]

Re The Lazy Kipper

There is no such thing as an anchor that is too big, in my experience.

I have an idea , pm sent

That is the approach of two architects whom I respect: Michel Joubert and Steve Dashew.

Anchor, chain and windlass all 'over-sized and forget any silly notion about putting two anchors out.

 

[rotrax]

I don't know much about windlasses, and I'm puzzled by the 'max anchor weight' limit. Surely the differences in anchor weight are not a big factor compared to the pull required to overcome the holding and break the anchor out? Even the differences in weight between 8mm and 10mm chain would be greater, I would guess, then any likely variation in the weight of anchors you might use.

Or is, perhaps, the anchor weight limit being used as a proxy for the likely anchor holding power capability of the windlass? In which case your proposed switch to a lighter weight but equally (or better) grippy Fortress would still, in theory, be too much for the cheaper windlasses.

If you do it properly you CERTAINLY dont use the windlass to break the anchor out!

 

[snowleopard]

If you don't use your windlass to wind yourself up to the anchor, the highest load is going to come at the point the anchor is about to break out. The one that will give the biggest load then is the Fortress when it has had a few days to burrow into soft mud.

 

[JerryHawkins]

We have several...

...anchors on LG. Two 45lb CRQs, a 20KG Bruce (copy) and a 25Kg Rocna (original NZ model). The Rocna is our main bower with the others as 'ballast'! We use 10mm chain and our windlass is 1200w. Although the windlass will pull the boat to the anchor it is kinder to motor slowly forward whilst winding in. 8mm chain does seem a little 'light'; maybe fine in practice, but it just looks too small!

 

[Colvic Watson]

How much 10mm chain do you carry Jerry?