PLease educate me about Catamarans

wytco0

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On my continuing quest to decide what sort of boat to buy I have recently been looking at motor sailors, but something in another thread got me thinking about catamarans. A Catamaran superficially at least seems to be a good solution for me.

I am after the following:
1) Reasonable size which was why I had started to think about 30 foot motor sailors. I want degree of comfort but I cant afford much.
2) Comfortable for living aboard for reasonable periods of time (weeks to months)
3) ideally under £30k preferably under £20k.
4) inboard engine.
5) Capable of a trip round the UK or even RTW.


BUT I hadn't even thought of a catamaran as they seem to attract a lot of negative comments. However I am a novice and at my age I dont think I will ever be a great sailor and I am not interested in ultimate speed or performance. I aim to potter around enjoying myself but I want to be able to go places as well.

So please educate me on the pros and cons and suitability of a catamaran.
 
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tom_sail

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Cats have many benefits over a monohull but also have alot of negatives. The extra running cost being one. Higher Marina fees as well as visitor mooring fees compared to a monohull. Most cats have two engines(one for each hull) this means more cost when something goes wrong and when winterising comes. But on the positive if you get an engine failure at least you have one engine left to limp home on.

I have never sailed a big cat and don't know how they handle but I imagine they need abit of skill parking in a Marina. They look like they have alot of windage but may also have alot of grip in the water.

If I was to ever buy a cat I would try and find a 50% share where each party owned one hull and were responsible for all the systems in that hull, the antifouling and engine, thus sharing the maintenance costs. The cat would need two heads and the galley would just have to be shared.
 

Twister_Ken

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I'm not a cat sailer, but there are a few advantages I'd like to have:

• Sails flatter, no alarming heel for those of nervous disposition
• Almost no roll when at anchor unless conditions are very silly
• Most have shallow draft - get away from the crowds
• Most can dry out happily on a beach or bank
• Ability to set a spinnaker without mucking about with a pole
• When you have an argument with the missus you can go off and sulk in the other hull

Warning, though. Cats at your price level are likely to be small, old and tatty.
 

boatmike

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The only sort of cat capable of long-distance voyaging you'll get for that budget is something like a Wharram. ....not spacious.

Was going to say a similar thing.

There are some good small cats but generally to get the advantages you need to be talking over about 34 ft minimum. These are way outside the budget you mention. They are as others have said expensive to maintain and moor too so I would stick to more conventional boats ubless you win the lottery!
 

bedouin

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At the risk of drifting the thread a bit, I have also been wondering about a cat - but probably a bit bigger than the OP (say 35-40) - and I have a few specific questions

- Obviously they take more space and are harder to moor - does that make finding overnight moorings / berths in a busy area like the solent harder / impossible?
- In typical cruising trim are they faster than an equivalent monohull?
- What are they like close hauled - say crossing the channel in F8?
 

maxcampbell

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capsize

Probably going to get shot down by cat fans, but the biggest reason I didn't go for a cat was the (however unlikely) ultimate possibility of capsize. In a monohull in extemis you could get rolled but come up right way up in the end (unless the keel falls off - there seems to be some standing joke about things called "bav's" which I don't fully understand) but in a cat you'd stay upside down until someone else comes along.

Other minor reasons for me going mono - cats can have a funny unpredictable jerky motion in a seaway - cats are really ungainly on inland waterways.

Go on then, Snow Leopard et al, tell me cats don't capsize....
 

mikeinkwazi

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Probably going to get shot down by cat fans, but the biggest reason I didn't go for a cat was the (however unlikely) ultimate possibility of capsize. In a monohull in extemis you could get rolled but come up right way up in the end (unless the keel falls off - there seems to be some standing joke about things called "bav's" which I don't fully understand) but in a cat you'd stay upside down until someone else comes along.

Other minor reasons for me going mono - cats can have a funny unpredictable jerky motion in a seaway - cats are really ungainly on inland waterways.

Go on then, Snow Leopard et al, tell me cats don't capsize....

If built correctly Cats don't sink, which is more than you can say for a monohull. PS After 35 years of trimarans I'm sailing a mono now as I could no longer find the parking fees!!!!!!
 

truscott

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Bedouin: Large cats with an engine in each hull, are actually very easy to maneuver in a marina and with a bit of practice you can almost drive them sideways. Windage is definitely an issue, but can be countered with judicious use of the throttles.

In cruising trim, and if we are talking about the typical production cat here, they are not that much faster than a monohull and depending on design, are often slower. Fast cats don't usually make great cruising cats, as you have to keep them light in order to achieve the speed. A good example of a lighter cruising cat from down my part of the world is Malcolm Tennant's Nothern 11

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index.php?page=northern---11

I've sailed an extended version of this and can say that it will sail rings around a similar sized Lagoon, but the Lagoon is way more comfortable. There is a decent shot of a Bladerunner sailing past a Lagoon on you tube. Looks like the Lagoon is standing still.

MaxCampbell: Go ahead, tell me that mono's don't sink. :)

I am a multihull fan, and still regularly sail them, racing Hobie 16's and maintaining a 28 foot cruising cat for a friend while he works offshore, but for the same reasons others have posted here ie. mooring costs and purchase price, have mono's (a Limbo 6.6 and a SO40). The SO40 gives us the same amount of living space as a 38 foot cat, but at half the cost to purchase, and a fraction of the cost to moor.

For the OP, your budget could possibly get you into an older Heavenly Twins, but you're likely to spend a heck of lot more getting it up to scratch, whereas you'll get into quite a nice older mono that may be capable of getting you around the world.

Cheers, PT.

Edit (apologies to MaxCampbell).
 
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Tranona

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As already noted, cats start to make sense once you get over 34 ft as that allows enough height to get good accommodation. Below that size they tend to be more like camping, or are performance orientated. There are exceptions such as the Heavenly Twins and Catalacs which have good accommodation. They are, however slow and rarely do they have inboards - usually a central outboard. You can get these well within your budget, but they are mostly old and condition varies.

You still have the potential negatives of higher mooring costs if you use marinas and maintenance is potentially higher than a mono of the same length. Some people have difficulty with the motion on smaller cats, but they do have the advantage of running flat and dry out upright.

Where cats have done well is in hot climates where the space and ability to fit lots of berths into a given length are valued. So very popular with charter companies. Their boats, however are in a different league from the sort you are looking at.

Guess, as with any type of boat, you have to look at a few to get the feel as to whether you would be comfortable with them. Cats are a minority interest, but they clearly meet some needs.
 

25931

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Several statements above are of dubious veracity.
There are so many types of catamaran that it is ridiculous to generalise. Going back a few years MacAlpine Downey designed some very fast cats with dagger boards and some people thought that they were so prone to capsize that they mounted masthead floats. The Prout brothers on the other hand designed the likes of the Snowgoose for safe, comfortable cruising and, as far as I know, not one has either capsized or sunk.Those constructed in the 1970s were built like battleships and many are still in good condition and sailing in many parts of the world and go for the sort of prices that the op is talking about.
Some places charge exorbitantly but it is often posssible to take a longer berth (giving the appropriate width) for a lot less than the 50% increase that some ask for. I took a Catalac 9m into the new marina at La Linea last year and they said that modern monos being so wide their berths were suitable for the cat - so same price.
 

chinita

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I took a Catalac 9m into the new marina at La Linea last year and they said that modern monos being so wide their berths were suitable for the cat - so same price.

Same for Gemini Cats.

Even some of the more expensive marinas will allow winter berths at the same rate as monohulls.

If you need to keep a Cat in a marina during the summer, you probably need to think about buying a motorhome instead.
 

wytco0

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Thanks for the info keep it coming ... Much appreciated and informative.

I am hoping at least for the first year or 2 to keep whatever I buy somewhere in Norfolk possibly Brancaster/Wells/Blakeny etc. I would prefer to not have to spend much time in marinas if possible but its good to hear that catamarans don't necessarily mean a higher charge.
 
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Yacht Breeze

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The Purrfect cat.

Cats v Monohulls

Beware, there are some out of date myths about catamarans which get perpetuated through bar room gossip and other 'reliable' sources.

Firstly, let's ignore racing cats which are simply speed machines designed to get a crew from A to B in the shortest, and generally, the wettest time. As this is a YM threat I'll assume you are interested in cruising not bashing round the cans.

CAPSIZE
Modern cats do not capsize unless you seriously abuse them. Fact.

MANEUVERABILITY
A cat with twin inboard engines (a configuration adopted by most cruising cats) is easier to 'park' than a monohull. The twin engines with props widely spaced give extremely good maneuverability. A cat with a single engine (some of the Prouts for instance) can be a pig to moor even with their idiosyncratic steerable legs!

MOORING COSTS
In theory some marinas will charge 'time and a half' for catamarans but in practice many marinas are so pleased to see you they simply charge the standard rate and not add a penalty for cats. If a marina charges extra for a cat, don't go there.

DRAUGHT
Compared to a monohull, cats have very shallow draughts. This opens up cruising areas denied to monohull sailors. It also means you can take the bottom and dry out without having to worry about falling over....unless you've been hitting the lemonade.

PERFORMANCE
Cats go very well off the wind and will generally do better than a monohull. On the wind they do not impress. They will not point as high as a monohull....45 degrees is as close as you will get and maybe not even that.

WEIGHT
Cats are not load tolerant and with all the space they offer there's a real temptation to load them up. This seriously degrades their performance and should be resisted.

SIZE/COST
33 feet is about as small as you'd want to go for the trip you describe. 37 feet or more would be nicer. Given your budget you'll be hard pressed to find a suitably equipped boat of the right size.

BROKER
There are several specialist multihull brokers but one of the most knowledgeable is Mark of Multihull World based at Emsworth.


I've owned three multihulls and two monohulls. I currently have a 40 foot monohull although would have preferred a 40 foot multihull - but the cat was twice the cost of the monohull.

Whatever boat you choose have a great, and safe, time.

Trevor.
Yacht Breeze
 

multihullsailor6

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Tnanks for the info keep it coming ... Much appreciated and informative.

Hi wytco0,

In your quest for finding a suitable cat I take it you have looked at all the four (to my knowledge) UK multihulll brokers and also at ebay.

But don't forget the (still close to you) French market with possibly more offers. Here are two good staring points:
1) http://www.multisailing.com/EN/index.php
The major French multihull broker

2) http://www.leboncoin.fr/li?ca=18_44_s&q=catamaran&c=7&th=1&w=3&o=1
These are private for sale adverts with sometimes dream prices!

And finally have a look at the multihull forum: www.multihulls4us.com which should provide a lot of information.

I bought my first multihull 44 years ago and will never go back to a monohull ( also known as a 'halfamaran' )
 

Colvic Watson

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A few inaccuracies, but generally the information is accurate.

1. Heavenly Twins / Catalac will be very affordable and very safe and quite slow. A few HT's have gone RTW. One HT did capsize but it was in a F11 when he fell sleep and his autopilot turned him beam onto the seas. It didn't sink.

2. Any half decent cat above 9m is ridiculously expensive, even an old skanky 1980 Snoogoose will sell for way way more than the equivalent mono - is it really that much better?

3. A modern cruising cat is expensive but almost universally brilliant. Still not that fast in all up loaded cruising trim, but not slow either.

4. A fast cat can be scary and has much more limited accommodation.

5. Only one marina charged us extra in five years of cat cruising.

6. Most HT's and Catalacs are twin inboard diesels and you should see them manoeuvre in a marina! Amazing. A single central outboard makes it as much fun as a long keeler :eek:

So buy an HT or a Catalac for a good price, try it and sell it for the same money; or buy a good motor sailer, our ketch rigged Colvic Watson 34 sails much better than our cat ever did but no way as good as a Bermudan rigged Bavaria 34 going to windward or on a close reach. As for beam - its a bit embarrassing really, our Colvic Watson has a foot more beam than our cruising cat did, plus the accommodation runs the full length unlike any cat.

Beware of generalisations, there are as many variations in cats as there are in monohulls, but a bit more ignorance from those who tried one once and didn't like it.
 
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snowleopard

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Heavenly Twins / Catalac will be very affordable and very safe and quite slow. A few HT's have gone RTW. One HT did capsize but it was in a F11 when he fell sleep and his autopilot turned him beam onto the seas. It didn't sink..

The HT could well be in the budget if you shop around. I'd recommend starting at the Multihull Centre in Cornwall which is now run by Pip Paterson, son of Pat who designed & built them. A lot of boat for your money.

p.s. Yes, you can capsize a cruising cat - if you have a lot more bottle than brains. You can carry full canvas in a F9 without significant heeling then over she goes.
 

Tropic Cat

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I think if I was doing what they were doing I'd use what they were using......
______

I think the lady in the video would look perfect in the cockpit of my 8 meter Catalac.

The information in this thread is honest and accurate. We know all too well that all boats are a compromise. I would look for an 8 or 9 meter Catalac with twin diesels. I'm obviously biased yet I this it to be good advice. There are several for sale by owner in the link in my sig.
 
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