Please,a simple answer of why yachts have 130% genoas

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Wansworth

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Went to see a yacht built in the 1980s it had a small main and a massive 130% Genoa that as the owner remarked over powered the boat.How was it thought a massive Genoa could work as a light weather sail and a strong wind sail and what happened to the bigger mainsails and smaller jibs?
 
There must be a genuine technical reason but being a cynical old git, could it be that modern folk found it easier to just haul on a line to reef a sail, rather than all that clambering around to reef a main. If the Genoa was the main driving sail, the main lost it's importance in the modern designs ...perhaps??
 
veshengro said:
There must be a genuine technical reason but being a cynical old git, could it be that modern folk found it easier to just haul on a line to reef a sail, rather than all that clambering around to reef a main. If the Genoa was the main driving sail, the main lost it's importance in the modern designs ...perhaps??
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In practice this yacht a cobra 850 would be going to windward with three reefs in the diminutive main and a massive sausage hanging down the forestay.!
 
Wansworth said:
In practice this yacht a cobra 850 would be going to windward with three reefs in the diminutive main and a massive sausage hanging down the forestay.!
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Going to windward!!..Must be mad, drop the main, roll the Genny away except allowing the clew to show and start the engine. Is that not the modern drill?
 
Most masthead rigged yachts had a large Genoa, my Vega would sail very well on Genoa alone, it was awkward to go on deck to haul up the main, so sometimes I never bothered, I always intended to make it so that I could raise the main from the cockpit but never got around to it, I would always raise the main if I knew it was going to get a lot windier though, or if I was on a long trip.
 
Wansworth said:
Went to see a yacht built in the 1980s it had a small main and a massive 130% Genoa that as the owner remarked over powered the boat.How was it thought a massive Genoa could work as a light weather sail and a strong wind sail and what happened to the bigger mainsails and smaller jibs?
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Its genoa has roller reefing. What's the problem?
 
LittleSister said:
Its genoa has roller reefing. What's the problem?
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Yes but having a massive sausage twisted up on the fore stay hardly strikes me as efficient or graceful.Oneof the best modern designs was by pheon yachts ,a cutter rig ,I think Hacker had the bigger sister but the rig seems perfectly seaworthy and you can add on a light weather code A …..fo r off wind work ….why did they have this mania for going to windward😳
 
It dates from racing under the IOR which did not count the overlap as rated sail area. You will find many boats from the 70-early90s used this type of masthead rig with skinny mainsails and a wardrobe of head sails. Hard work for cruising boats, tempered somewhat by the introduction of roller furling but still leads to poor sail shape when reefed. Many boats go just as well with better shaped and more stable smaller overlapping headsails of 110-120% and padded luffs. You can also on some boats increase the mainsail area by making the sail with more roach and if the boom is long enough and there is clearance to the backstay, a longer foot.

If buying a boat from that era you are largely stuck with an inappropriate rig although money spent on sails and good gear to handle the loads can improve matters. The biggest drawback in day to day sailing is the effort of tacking, particularly if the rig has a babystay so reducing the overlap along with a higher clew can make a big difference. Downside is some loss of drive particularly in light airs.
 
Tranona said:
It dates from racing under the IOR which did not count the overlap as rated sail area. You will find many boats from the 70-early90s used this type of masthead rig with skinny mainsails and a wardrobe of head sails. Hard work for cruising boats, tempered somewhat by the introduction of roller furling but still leads to poor sail shape when reefed. Many boats go just as well with better shaped and more stable smaller overlapping headsails of 110-120% and padded luffs. You can also on some boats increase the mainsail area by making the sail with more roach and if the boom is long enough and there is clearance to the backstay, a longer foot.

If buying a boat from that era you are largely stuck with an inappropriate rig although money spent on sails and good gear to handle the loads can improve matters. The biggest drawback in day to day sailing is the effort of tacking, particularly if the rig has a babystay so reducing the overlap along with a higher clew can make a big difference. Downside is some loss of drive particularly in light airs.
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Thanks
 
Wansworth said:
Yes but having a massive sausage twisted up on the fore stay hardly strikes me as efficient or graceful.Oneof the best modern designs was by pheon yachts ,a cutter rig ,I think Hacker had the bigger sister but the rig seems perfectly seaworthy and you can add on a light weather code A …..fo r off wind work ….why did they have this mania for going to windward😳
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I also had a Vancouver 274, the 4 berth layout with conventional double in the forepeak. It originally came to me with hacked on foresails the Genoa was about 120 / 130% with a No1 yankee and the staysail to back it up. I swiftly changed to just a yankee and roller reefing as the Genoa was a pain in the arse. It had to be walked around the inner stay when you tacked and overpowered the boat after 10 to 12kts. The boat didn't sail under jib alone ate all well.
 
Fr J Hackett said:
I also had a Vancouver 274, the 4 berth layout with conventional double in the forepeak. It originally came to me with hacked on foresails the Genoa was about 120 / 130% with a No1 yankee and the staysail to back it up. I swiftly changed to just a yankee and roller reefing as the Genoa was a pain in the arse. It had to be walked around the inner stay when you tacked and overpowered the boat after 10 to 12kts. The boat didn't sail under jib alone ate all well.
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The working rig was the Yankees and staysail on the inner foresail.Was that not enough sail ,I guess the Genoa was for off wind work .
 
Wansworth said:
The working rig was the Yankees and staysail on the inner foresail.Was that not enough sail ,I guess the Genoa was for off wind work .
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They were heavy boats and struggled in lightish winds but once the wind got above 12kts they would get into their stride with the yankee and staysail. They were not what you would call close winded though but bullet proof in a blow.
 
Wansworth said:
Yes but having a massive sausage twisted up on the fore stay hardly strikes me as efficient or graceful.Oneof the best modern designs was by pheon yachts ,a cutter rig ,I think Hacker had the bigger sister but the rig seems perfectly seaworthy and you can add on a light weather code A …..fo r off wind work ….why did they have this mania for going to windward😳
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So, you could go sailing but have to put up with embarrassment and inconvenience of a big genoa until you get it cut down/buy smaller (amazing that all the many Cobra and similar design owners have managed to endure this over the decades), or wait for a cutter-rigged Pheon yacht to come on the market in Galicia within your budget.

Tricky! ;)
 
LittleSister said:
So, you could go sailing but have to put up with embarrassment and inconvenience of a big genoa until you get it cut down/buy smaller (amazing that all the many Cobra and similar design owners have managed to endure this over the decades), or wait for a cutter-rigged Pheon yacht to come on the market in Galicia within your budget.

Tricky! ;)
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Your having a go at me I can tell☹️
 
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