Planning a passage from Brest towards Ireland ...

[Plomong]

with intermediate stops in Cornwall and Milford Haven.

Current thinking is a landfall in Newlyn or Penzance, with Falmouth as alternative if westerlies oblige, and Padstow as alternative if an easterly blows up.

So, what are the panels ideas, comments, opinions with respect to the following points:

1: Which is better, Newlyn or Penzance ??

2: Since I will be going on towards Milford Haven, would Padstow be a better landfall, passing west of the Scilly Isles, or would it be better to go anyway for Newlyn / Penzance with the given alternatives (plan B) ??

3: I have ruled out Falmouth as primary landfall. Is this wise, despite it being further east than the "corner" ???

4: Leaving Brest, the Chenal du Four is the shortest route. Under what circumstances would you recommend the Passage du Fromveur or going the long way round Ushant ??

5: And on the way back, would L'Aber Wrac'h be a better destination than Brest, despite requiring an extra leg to get down into Biscay ???

Thanking you all for your thoughts and opinions,

Plomong

 

[Lady Campanula]

The Chenal du Four/Chenal de Helle should present little problem in the conditions of wind/sea that you'd choose to set out with. Just time your departure from Brest, through the Gulet, with an ebbing tide to arrive at Pt. St Matthieu when the flood is about to begin. You can anchor 'comfortably' just east of the Pointe if you're a bit early. That new flood stream will then help carry you northwards and spit you clear, and well past Le Four, even if there's little breeze and you don't have the benefit of a functioning engine. ( Yes, I've been there, done that, twice... )

I would suggest you don't consider the Passage de Fromveur. That adds distance and hazard - as does going outside Ouessant, with no compensating VMG. And you won't want to be there at all, should you find wind/swell over tide.

I prefer Newlyn over Penzance, and the several havens of the Isles of Scilly over either of them. Padstow's the only haven on the North Cornish coast, and it is not at all an all-weather all-tide port. I've used that little port dozens of times over the years; the approach is not lit, there's little room for error, and I would not choose to approach it in a rising gale and an ebbing tide.

I would route direct to the Isles of Scilly and, when the forecast was favourable, head direct for one of the several all-weather ports along the Cork coastline.

All those stretches of coast are 'iron-bound', and if deteriorating weather or - more frequently - deteriorating visibility occurs while you are inshore, I would firmly recommend you acquire a safe offing rather than try to feel your way into a well-guarded, unseen and swirly tide-swept river entrance.

Now, if you want a hand.....

 

[Plomong]

Thanks, Lady Campanula, for your comments.

I would suggest you don't consider the Passage de Fromveur.

Yes, I've just looked at the tidal streams -- up to 9 kn at springs. Not a place to be at the wrong time !!!

As for going west-about Ushant, I did think it a bit far from the route, so just mentioned it in case it had some advantage unknown to me.

I prefer Newlyn over Penzance

Newlyn was my first choice -- all-tide access and nearer the final destination than Falmouth, for example.

the several havens of the Isles of Scilly

Which would you suggest, and in what conditions ?? (Easterlies, SW, etc.)

Padstow .... is not at all an all-weather all-tide port.

I understood so from Roger Oliver's account of his circumnavigation. I take your point that the Scilly Isles could be a better place for a stopover before heading off for Ireland.

I would route direct to the Isles of Scilly and, when the forecast was favourable, head direct for one of the several all-weather ports along the Cork coastline.

So, you would skip past Milford Haven altogether ? I had thought about that, but rejected it so as to break the crossing into shorter hops. However, taking your suggestion that the Scilly Isles are a good place for a stopover, it does have its merits.
Ultimate destination is Dunmore East / Waterford.
Arrival around middle of June or so, to be in time for the Tall Ships Race !!!

Now, if you want a hand.....

Thanks for the offer. My initial idea was to solo up the French coast, with my brother as crew on the crossing from Brest onwards, but this is not finalised yet, so I may, early next year, be looking for crew for one or other of the six crossings: Brest to Cornwall, Cornwall to Wales and Wales to Ireland, in both directions. I'll see how the plans develop over the coming months.

Plomong

 

[dt4134]

If you're heading up to Waterford a 24 hour trip up from the Scillies would be better than diverting to Milford Haven.

If you got a crew together you could do it in one hop.

Watch out for fog off the Scillies. Caught there once heading from France to Ireland and realised that the echo sounder offers you little navigational help, so had to rely solely on GPS to keep clear.

 

[Lady Campanula]

OK.

A little more 'conjecture'. The Isles of Scilly are enchanting, in any fair weather, and Newlyn is not. The twin ports of Newlyn and Penzance would serve as diversions if I were pushed off my preferred direct track, but that would likely delay me several days, and rounding Lanzen with a serving tide and big westerly seas/breeze is not a clever choice. Further, the Isles of Scilly lie very conveniently about on the direct track from the end of the Chenal de la Helle ( preferred if the wind serves, for it provides 'safe offing' quicker ).

Once within the islands, one can find good shelter from strong wind and big seas from any direction. One may want to shift berths if/as a big depression goes through, for St Mary's gets rolly, but that's OK if ordinary seamanship/anticipation is applied. You do need the local chart, for crossing the sands between islands is tide-height sensitive. Do remember that there are 3 TSSs in the vicinity of the Isles, but I've never found that to be a problem.

Since the Duchy laid 'bombproof' moorings in several fairly sheltered locations some years ago, one can sit out unexpected rough weather well-secured in safety, until the winds and seas abate. These are at St Mary's, New Grimsby Harbour, and Tean Sound just off the west end of St Martin's.

There is also a dozen or more good anchorages - described in Reed's - dotted around, to be selected according to the wind/seas direction.... and the need for a nearby pub! 'Mentioned in dispatches' are St.Agnes for The Cove/Porth Conger and the 'Turks Head'; New Grimsby and Old Grimsby Harbours, with a choice of hotels/bars; and Watermill Cove to the NE of St. Mary's - 'bring a bottle'.

One of my fav idyllic anchorages is St Helen's Pool.... However, anchoring inside the islands requires you be not just 'confident' of your gear and procedures, but 'certain'.

Destined for the Cork shores, I would move to either New Grimsby or Tean Sound, so that my departure to the NW is easy and straight into deep waters. It's much the same from St. Helen's Pool ( in daylight ), and you'll have the light/beacon of nearby Round Island visible behind you for a score of miles, if you depart at sunset.

It is a shorter passage from Scillies to one of the fine ports along the Cork coast than to Milford - and each of them is more attractive than The Haven/Pembroke. Once on the Irish coast, your choices are much easier and IMHO better.

'Two legs are better than four.....'

 

[Sybarite]

I second what LC has advised. That is what I have done in the past. Camaret is a pleasant start point and it takes about 24 hours from there to St Mary's (Camaret - St Mary's about 125 nm). If the wind is from the west St Mary's is rolly and they charge for the moorings but you can anchor for free around the corner in Porthcressa (but beware of wind turning SE).

After, it depends where you are going. As I have wanted to go up the East coast I have used Arklow as a destination. (St Mary's to Arklow about 190 nm) There is nothing at Rosslare and Wexford is more tide dependent. A good alternative is Kilmore Quay.

OK. On re-reading I see that Dunmore East and Waterford are your destinations.

 

[Sybarite]

If you're heading up to Waterford a 24 hour trip up from the Scillies would be better than diverting to Milford Haven.

If you got a crew together you could do it in one hop.

Watch out for fog off the Scillies. Caught there once heading from France to Ireland and realised that the echo sounder offers you little navigational help, so had to rely solely on GPS to keep clear.

The first time we left Scilly it was quite foggy. We noticed that the charts mentionned a submarine training area. In the middle of this blankness a canon fired...!! When we contacted Falmouth to inform them, they told us to b***** off as they had a mayday underway. Then a little later a second shot. We turned on the motor so that we would be detectible on the sonar and after a very anxious few hours we were past the danger area.

The following day my sister said, "You know that canon fire ? .. Concorde...! "

I always had had the ambition to see Ireland from the sea in my own boat. We went up the Irish Sea in about 50m visibility. Then the Dinghy Decca lost it and we were navigating only by depth.

An eventful trip but it started off well by seeing a large pod of pilot whales near the Glénan islands.

 

[Plomong]

Thanks everyone for your comments and ideas.

I've now:
a) pencilled in a possible stopover in the Scilly Isles instead of Newlyn. Am studying tides, depths, anchorages, etc in that carpet of rocks, so no final decision made as yet,

b) changed the previous 2-stage crossing to Dunmore to be a single leg, with Milford Haven as an alternative if the weather deteriorates.

Thanks, to all, Lady Campanula, dt4134 and Sybarite.

Plomong

PS: Am awaiting charts to proceed with more detailed planning.

 

[dt4134]

PS: Am awaiting charts to proceed with more detailed planning.

That reminds me. Be wary of relying on the Imray chart for the Scillies. I've had to use it but the chart itself advised me to switch to BA883 which the owner didn't have on board.

 

[dratsea]

Good advice making Scillies if you can. If planning for next summer, aiming for Newlyn/Penzance and sent west by approaching low (and prospect of NW next day) look at Kinance cove just west of Lizard. Brilliant ancorage (for one boat). PM if you would like scan of out of date pilot (last updated 1975) or small scale chart 2345. Going to boat on 4/12 and happy to bring either back.

For return aim to be just west of entrance of Ch du Four as tide turns. If you get it wrong you will be swept East but do enjoy the delights of L'Aberwrach, go to the small restaurent to west of bar opposite yacht school (someone will help out with name) and if you look serious madame will give you 30 years of visitors in the diaries to read, and hopefully, you can add comment.

 

[dt4134]

I always had had the ambition to see Ireland from the sea in my own boat. We went up the Irish Sea in about 50m visibility. Then the Dinghy Decca lost it and we were navigating only by depth.

An eventful trip but it started off well by seeing a large pod of pilot whales near the Glénan islands.

I hope the fog lifted eventually and you got to see Ireland. If not, it's still there.

 

[Plomong]

That reminds me. Be wary of relying on the Imray chart for the Scillies. I've had to use it but the chart itself advised me to switch to BA883 which the owner didn't have on board.

I'll have SC5603, so that will not be a problem.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Plomong

 

[Plomong]

If aiming for Newlyn/Penzance and sent west by approaching low (and prospect of NW next day) look at Kinance cove just west of Lizard.

I can't find Kinance in an old MacMillan almanac. Will look for it when SC5603 arrives.

PM if you would like scan of out of date pilot (last updated 1975) or small scale chart 2345. Going to boat on 4/12 and happy to bring either back.

Thanks for the offer, but I think I have all bases covered with the charts (and sets) I am awaiting, and the 2011 almanac. On 4/12 I should be somewhere near the Lizard, but at about 30000 ft elevation.

For return aim to be just west of entrance of Ch du Four as tide turns. If you get it wrong you will be swept East but do enjoy the delights of L'Aberwrach.

The first part is what the pilot recommends, but doesn't state the second part, the undesired consequences of not making the tidal gate, for whatever reason.

Thanks for your input,

Plomong.