Planned trailer improvement

Touchwood

Touchwood

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I have a bilge keel trailer sailer - the keel "feet" sit on marine ply boards on the trailer. When recovering it is esential to get the boat right forward for correct balance, which can be tricky. The friction between the keel feet and the marine ply is too great to permit winching the boat further on when recovered.
I plan to cover the marine ply with a plastic sheet in the hope that this will allow the boat to be slid forward with the trailer winch if not fully on.
Anyone done this or something similar? Any recommendations for the plastic sheet, method of fixing to the ply?
Incidentally the previous owner recommended driving forward at around 15 mph then hitting the brakes hard as a method to achieve the same end. I don't really fancy this......;)
 
If you can beg,borrow or hire a "Tirfor", you'll probably be able to pull the keels forward under control.
Pieces of Formica or similar, glued/screwed on might reduce friction somewhat.
 
Thanks for the response EB, and the suggestion, but Tirfors come a bit expensive. Also, part of the problem is that the 'U' bolt on the stem to which the trailer winch line (actually a belt) is hooked is well above the level of the contact point between keel and trailer, so the pull has a considerable downward element which doesn't help.

Formica glued in place sounds like what I had in mind - I suppose I was just really looking for some reassurance that it will work from someone who had done it.
 
trouble is that if you have a low friction surface under the keels for adjusting the point of balance, you will have a low friction surface there when you are braking.

I have a 24 ftr which sits on a three axle trailer, and needs the same adjustments. In the past, I have 'loaded' the hull by placing a lorry-type ratchet strap round the deadwood, and leading it forward to the area by the tow hitch. Tighten up as much as you can, then gently clout the stern of the keel with a lump hammer. This overcomes the "stiction" and the boat moves forward in distances of about 2 - 4 cms each time. Re-set the ratchet strap, as required.

BTW, wire rope winches come up on eBay quite often.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_...nkw=wire+rope+winch&_sacat=See-All-Categories

but why not fix an old sailing winch onto the front end of the trailer and put the strain onto that ?


EDIT

I knew I had seen simple cheap winches on EBay !

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-TON-CABLE-P..._Lifting_Moving_Equipment&hash=item2a0c28beba
 
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Touchwood said:
I have a bilge keel trailer sailer - the keel "feet" sit on marine ply boards on the trailer. When recovering it is esential to get the boat right forward for correct balance, which can be tricky.
Click to expand...
I assume you have locating 'wands' fitted to locate the hull onto the trailer ? Why not complement these with a 'stop bar' run across the width of the trailer, about 12-18" high, so that you winch in the boat until it's keels are hard up to the bar before recovering the trailer+boat from the water ?
 
Agreed, a proper Tirfor is pricey if you can't hire,but there are cheap cable pullers on ebay. I used to pull my Tomahawk about on its trailer with a Tirfor, ~5000lb. no problem, but I did have the advantage of a pal to borrow from. The rope was put round the back of the keels, pulling against the towing hitch to keep the pull horizontal. One keel at a time if need be.
Thin SS sheet, if available might be a more durable alternative to plastic
 
Touchwood said:
I have a bilge keel trailer sailer - the keel "feet" sit on marine ply boards on the trailer. When recovering it is esential to get the boat right forward for correct balance, which can be tricky. The friction between the keel feet and the marine ply is too great to permit winching the boat further on when recovered.
Click to expand...

electrosys said:
I assume you have locating 'wands' fitted to locate the hull onto the trailer ? Why not complement these with a 'stop bar' run across the width of the trailer, about 12-18" high, so that you winch in the boat until it's keels are hard up to the bar before recovering the trailer+boat from the water ?
Click to expand...

Agreed. The recovering technique seems to be at fault here.

If the boat won't winch forward any further, then put the trailer back into the water a little to re float, or partly re float the boat so you can winch it forward.

Is the boat right out of the water while you are trying to move it, or is it a case of as I suspect just not quite far enough in?
 
I used to have the same trouble with an Evolution 22 that we usd to have. It didn't have any hard features on the bottom that I could pull against either. The boat used to sit on the trailer in a partial mould taken off its own bottom. Great for supporting the boat, but only if it was in exactly the right place when we came up the slipway.

I ended up making a pole coming up from the trailer to where the stemhead fitting needed to be and simply shackling the stemhead fitting to it while the baot was still afloat and driving up the slipway. That, in combination with docking poles either side, pretty much guaranteed the position on the trailer each time. The pole needs to be diagonally braced back on to the trailer frrame as the bending loads on it can be severe.

As previously stated, I'd be very wary of reducing friction between keel and trailer as you really need that to help the boat stay put when driving.

The lorry ratchet straps worked well on our Leisure 17 - precisely the same problem, getting it positioned on the trailer.
 
Polypropylene carpet will cut down the friction. Used to have a trailer with a dolly on it. Bilge keels into position and then winch the dolly along the trailer
 
I'm with the people saying a low friction surface is a bad thing on a trailer ! Also if you must do it, I think Formica would be too brittle, it would need something like thick plastic or as mentioned, stainless steel.

I'd have thought a strap around the keels and the aforementiond hammer or a crowbar / tyre iron lever would move her into the correct spot ? Probably needs to be on level ground though, not bows up on the slip of course.
 
Seajet said:
I'm with the people saying a low friction surface is a bad thing on a trailer ! Also if you must do it, I think Formica would be too brittle, it would need something like thick plastic or as mentioned, stainless steel.

I'd have thought a strap around the keels and the aforementiond hammer or a crowbar / tyre iron lever would move her into the correct spot ? Probably needs to be on level ground though, not bows up on the slip of course.
Click to expand...

Certainly allowing the booat to be able to slide easily back and forwards on the trailer doesn't seem to be a good idea if you are taking it out on the roads. We used to move our SeaWych backwards and forwards on the trailer using a ratchet securing strap, Easy to get good angles from the trailer chassis and the keels. Machime mart also sell a low cost tirfor which we have used for several pulling jobs including extracting the trailer and our Maxi 77 from a very soggy lawn.
 
Bilge keel trailer

I would advocate that you do it properly and remove the channel the bilge keels sit in and replace with an open channel with rollers. Done properly you could winch the boat on in much shallower water and it will be easier to locate the boat both fore and aft and sideways.
You will need guides to get the keels over the centre of the rollers.
You will of course need a decent trailer winch to pull it on and forward and a Vee support for the bow.ie the bow is stopped from sliding forward on braking by the vee and held forward by the winch cable. (and safety chain)
However you must be wary that if the ramp has a decent slope the the boat will be level in the water while the trailer is stern down hence the boat bow may be well below its final location in the vee. This is not a problem if you winch the boat on but if you float it on you may need to be able to move the vee forward out of the way until the boat is recovered.
Once you have the keels on rollers at home. it becomes an easy job to move the boat back 6 inches for painting a/f on the keel bottoms (using a jack from front support to bow) then winch it back in place to get all the keel bottoms accessible. (and other parts of under hull). Or you could remove rollers one at a time to paint under the roller.
good luck olewill
 
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Many thanks

Thanks to all for your suggestions and ideas. I'm taking the advice re. the friction reduction being not such a good idea - it actually hadn't occurred to me. A more accurate recovery is the way to go, and lots of ideas from you on that, thanks.
 
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