Pilotage plans

S

srevir

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 Jul 2007
Messages
81
Visit site
Be interested to have views on best form of graphical representation to use for approach / departure plans.

For years I have used a vertical list of instructions starting from a waypoint or other known position and listing out distances, bearings and features. With two plotters on-board its getting increasingly tempting to not bother which is of course dangerous.

So I was thinking that I might change my format, just to make it more interesting and recall having seen people use a 'stick' diagram which I am tempted to experiement with.

My recollection is esentially a straight line but with features and turning points arranged down each side with a visual indication of 'turn left' or whatever.

Whats the proper name for such a construct and what do people see as the pluses and minuses ?
 
never used one..
If I was single handed I might consider it, but with 2 on board one glances at the pilot book / chart etc, the other steers, or, the ap steers (which is more usual)
or, just use the plotter after confirming the route with the pilot book / reeds etc.

no worries.
 
Don't know what they are called but have used them for some long and complicated pilotages, had mine in a notebook that would fit in pocket.The ones like the police use are good and you can then have each leg on one page, and the whole route can then run up and over the pages. Have seen large bits about them in the dreaded Bowditch. Must have been a really boring watch if i was reading that.
 
Its an interesting one this. And there are different answers for a raggie who can plod on it at 2kn if necessary and a stinkie who has to make a narrow entrance at 10 knots steering from a flybridge. The raggie has it easy because he has time.

I.m a raggie. If I had a plotter I think I would rely on that - after all a visual representation of where you are on a chart is likely to be much easier to use than written notes because it gives access instantaneously to far more information. Plus, in the dark its illuminated.

Without a chart plotter, I tend to use the pilot book, the chart in the almanac and any of those very useful aerial photos I can get. In a dodgy entrance I would have clearing bearings written down as a sequence from individual waypoints. But unless its really complicated and would require me to leaf through several books / charts I wouldnt normally write anything down except the bearings.

If I had a plotter I wouldnt try and use chart plotter plus a pile of my notes. Too much info flying about risks confusion and critical moments spent cross checking. So if its a normal port of call, then chart plotter. If detailed notes are required because its a dodgy sort of entrance, then turn the plotter off and do written pilotage

I've never navigated a fast power boat so I would be really interested in comments from those who have. To my mind , preparation and written notes would be more important for the stinkie but so would speedy access to the info. As an inveterate paper navigator I would be happily drawing my spider diagrams, incorporating clearing bearings on the chart itself. Can you do this on a chartplotter?
 
When the plotter fails would you rather have a system you have used and understood for years, or a new one that you have just started using?
 
[ QUOTE ]
When the plotter fails would you rather have a system you have used and understood for years, or a new one that you have just started using?

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is a bit like saying "take your hiking boots with you every time you go out in your car"
 
no, not really, just use the chart or pilot guide, not a big worry at all, as for the powerboat at 10 knots.. hmmm, theres always the throttle(s) ??
Again, depends if you are single handed, with crew, or partner, no wuckin furries.. its NOT rocket science.. some people make it out to be such a big deal that they run into things whilst scribbling notes on bits of paper.... checking AIS contact details.. cross checking depth with the tree on the hill 2 miles away and trying to remember the symbol they wrote on the conflakes packet... if only someone could offer charts, on a sort of screen, with, err gps hooked up.. now THAT would be good /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

oooooo, errrrrr, I think I found one on me boat, its called a chart plotter... and, with the latest reeds or similar, I can plan before I do something.. and cross check.....

Bleeding ludites lol /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Nice Jolly reply which I am beginning to recognise as a 'genre' favoured by some of the respondents on this forum.

However, having been on a boat in the bay of seine when all three GPS's lost satellite ( Yes one on the boat plus two hand-helds belonging to members of the crew ) I would urge people not to assume that the electronics are infallible. (Years ago I used to design computers so definitely dont trust THEM !)

Thanks to those who took my question seriously
 
Ah, the old fallback... I was out there when all me gps's failed... etc etc...

c'mon.... perlease.....is it REALLY difficult to fallback to a bit of paper from the last recorded position. ??

errrr.. nope, its not.....

Thats why aircraft fly on gps.. cos it fails at regular intervals....

be serious...
 
Aircraft don't only use GPS... even in this modern age they have alternatives ... inertial nav, ADF, VOR etc... and failing that, if they are near land, there is often VDF available.

Even as a private pilot you wouldn't find any well prepared pilot flying without an up-to-date aeronautical chart for the area he/she is flying in and up-to-date airport reference books such as pooleys or similar.
 
I d suggest most of it is preperation. I heavily rely on electronics, but if its somewhere unfamilar, I d read up beforehand as maybe theres something I need to know thats not obvious on the plotter. Then d/sounder and plotter. I ve relied on the electronics to get me 200metres offshore, why would I then decide not to rely on it ?
 
Wow, I'm amazed that almost no one does pilotage notes. Well we may be fuddy duddy, but we always do. In a 24 footer with no chart potter we've spent 2 summers going into a new port every few days. We do a pilotage plan every time, roughly based on the East Coast Pilot's method - ie start at the bottom of the page and draw a vertical line up with course changes indicated by R or L arrows and bearing written in. Bouys and other landmarks written on the appropriate side of the line with brief comments. A4 paper, keep it in a thin plastic wallet (weight -small torch actually) attached so it doesn't blow away. Actually going through the process is at least as useful as having the piece of paper to hand. You know what to expect. And it beats watching a screen, imho.
 
[ QUOTE ]

However, having been on a boat in the bay of seine when all three GPS's lost satellite ( Yes one on the boat plus two hand-helds belonging to members of the crew ) I would urge people not to assume that the electronics are infallible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont doubt your Seine experience - I once had the same thing approaching Ilfracombe in a gale and thunderstorm and with the genoa half way down the foil thanks to UV degradation. However, that was once in 20 years, which makes GPS significantly more reliable than my EPs and DRs or my diesel engine. So yes, lets have a fall back, but lets also recognise that the electronics are more reliable than the crew (or the boat) by a long way.

The only reason I dont use a chartplotter ( I do rely on GPS) is that the paper chartwork relieves boredom on a long passage. I even play with DRs and EPs and three point fixes for the same reason but I dont use the results seriously
 
well of course you could put waypoints into the plotter, but I m not sure why you would think your written notes would beat watching the screen when that contains so much detail .
 
When going somewhere new I research it on 2 plotters, almanac and pilot book, beforehand, then have all available during the passage. If it's complicated i may draw a plan but, even if the GPS signal goes down, one or other of the plotters will almost certainly still be working to act as a chart.
 
Just a few more pints answering some of the above.

"Raggies plodding along have it easier" - we'll yes they do have time. They also generally draw far more, are less manouvreable and far more subject to currents. Stinkies can overcome currents, draw less and don't actually have to do 10knts. They can slow down and get more time to react.

The time when you need a plan is when you're half way through & the GPS fails. It's almost guarenteed to do that in a F6, wind over tide at night.

I go in & out of Chichester all the time but still have a copy of a chart shrunk down with the nav lights highlighted along with their flash patterns. This I use at night to hope from light to light up what can be a very fast shaoling channel in some places.

For other plans, I'll generally sketch out the plan. I find it far easier to follow a sketch than instructions.

I guess the only time you really have to rely on instruments is when the vis is down. But then of course there are other options like depth that just about everyone can read.

Ulimately, the fewer things you have to rely on, the better. They will go wrong some time & it will be exactly at the worst time. As a dive instructor, I used to teach about the "incident pit". Basically, imagine an incident as being at the side of a hole where the sides become increasingly steep the further in you go. So if something happens, you're on the edge. Good planning will enable you to climb out with the minimum of effort. Poor or no planning meens you start to slide in. The further in you get, the harder it is to recover.

So plan for things to go wrong and even if they do, you have a backup.
 
Thanks brownsox - just dragged out my E Coast pilot and there it is - thats what I was remembering.

Sail out of hamble myself - first time was in a fireball dinghy in 1970 so I think I know the place pretty well but like wooslehuunter I still have a 'get me home' plan in the nav bag so that I could buoy hop if the weather really did close in and the electrics go out

Those like gigm have it right in emphasising that its all in the prep. I use the plotter a lot but having a written plan forces me to go over the route and really inspect the chart - Remember the guy who rammed Dorset last year merely because he put in a go-to for the needles without bothering to see exactly where the direct route took him !

I also find that its much easier to communicate to the crew what my intentions are if I have something on a bit of paper.

Thanks everyone for their input - now off to play with 'stick' diagrams

Have fun
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top