Pilot Cutter

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robmurray

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Does anyone have any views on the suitability of traditional pilot cutters as a potential circumnavigation boat for a couple plus small child? I know that Tom Cunliffe has cruised extensively. My view is that the sea kindliness should make them ideal
 
To say nothing of Tilman.

Would suggest that you and your family sail on one or two, there are some that work as charter boats. You will then have first hand experience to help you decide. Yes a stable and sea kindly hull, but the deck and sailing gear is likely to be in a totally different league to modern yachts of the same length.

Very nice idea though.
 
It's not a coincidence that sea-kindly boats have a similar hull shape all over the world, just as the modern average white boats have a similar hull shape. Therefore you might want to look for a sea-kindly shape but modern build.
 
I saw a full-sized grp replica of a pilot cutter in Benodet last year. I would happily have gone anywhere in it. It just looked right.
 
parsifal said:
I saw a full-sized grp replica of a pilot cutter in Benodet last year. I would happily have gone anywhere in it. It just looked right.
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No doubt, and you may well have the skills and experience to do so.

The real question is could it be safely handled by the couple in question with their child in any and all of the situations likely to be encountered on a circumnavigation?
 
If the replica is well built it should be able to handle anything (hurricanes apart), as ever the crew is the weak point. To me a seakindly boat doesn't heel to the rail and round up in gusts or have a tendacy to broach when being pushed around downwind. Unfortunately not many boats are made like that now.
 
Pilot cutters

As the skipper of Polly Agatha I'd have to say they make perfect live aboards if you are fit and have them well set up.
All the gear onboard is easily maintained and fixed anywhere in the world. You'll be welcomed with open arms almost everywhere. Yes they are sea kindly and safe - with loads of living space for a family.
 
Yes, they are entirely suitable for a circumnavigation. They are strong, sturdy boats and will stand up well to nasty weather much more confortably than a modern AWB.

However, you need to be aware, that a reasonable degree of physical strength is required to hoist the main, and in reefing it.

They are a little bit more complex to sail than a modern boat, but nothing that a bit of common sense can't work out - presumably by the time you are half way through your circumnavigation you will have got everything perfected!
 
There is no doubt that the boat would be up to it, however you will probably find sailing it quite hard work just two handed, even with sheet winches. The gear on boats like that is heavy and even though they were traditionally sailed by a 'man and a boy' there is debate over the size of the boy.

That said, if the other crew member was strong and competent, I wouldn't hesitate to cross oceans two handed on one. It would have to be a real one though, not a replica. I'm a bit of a snob like that.;)
 
Worries me a bit that people 'thinking' of a circumnavigation need to ask questions like this.
You can set off in anything and might get there. Read about Shrimpy. .But a little experience wiil aswer most of these questions.
Not trying to rain on any ones parade.
Local Pilot cutter type, needs 6/7 to get moving. "But we can sail it with 4" Or 3 in light airs.
A
 
If there are only two adults on board it is likely that in heavy weather one of them would be looking after the child full time. So you must be able to manage the boat single handed.
 
I would not have thought of pilot cutters as easy boats to single hand, but one with modern gear might be OK. A traditional wooden boat is likely to have an ongoing maintenence requirement that would rule it out as a suitable boat for circumnavigation. You would need a high level of boatbuilding skills and spend 50% of your time on maintenence, or very deep pockets. Even Mr Cunliffe had a new pilot cutter built. Presumably because of maintenence issues since he obviously likes the type.
 
steveallan said:
If there are only two adults on board it is likely that in heavy weather one of them would be looking after the child full time. So you must be able to manage the boat single handed.
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I don't think it really makes much difference from any other boat in that respect.

In heavy weather, what are you doing? Either

1) Sailing properly reefed down
in which case one person on the helm, or even the autopilot can do the job

2) Hove to
In which case you just need someone to look out from time to time to make sure you are not likely to get run over by a supertanker or a not getting too close in to the coast....

However, when you want to change sails or reef you really do not want to be on your own. You can tack/gybe a pilot cutter in any weather single handed, but you won't win any races doing it on your own. (For racing you can find something for 6 people to do if you are really going all out to windward).
 
DownWest said:
Worries me a bit that people 'thinking' of a circumnavigation need to ask questions like this.
A
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A very good point that. Anyone with experience enough to contemplate a long ocean voyage would surely have learnt what combination of seaworthiness and comfort they are going to need and decided on the best type of boat for the job.
 
Pilot Cutters

Hi - Just seen this thread - can I tie up alongside and make a few comments?
If I was contemplating that sort of trip, a Pilot Cutter would be high on my list. They were designed to take a pilot out into the Bristol Channel / N.Atlantic seas in ALL weathers, come alongside a bigger ship and transfer the pilot. Quite a demanding specification. And all done short-handed.
But a traditional Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter would be too heavy for a family.
Great idea to try a trip on the brand new Pilot Cutter Morwenna. I have booked for the Tom Cunliffe masterclass next month - hope it can still go ahead after Morwenna's dismasting off Ardnamurchan yesterday! Hope it is only teething troubles.
Morwenna is 28 tons. Tom Cunliffe's old pilot cutter Hirta was, I believe, much heavier. His current pilot cutter was recently advertised for sale. She is "Westerman" built 1997, displacing 22tons on 41 foot deck length. That would be a fantastic buy - what a pedigree - built for the man himself.
All of the above is, I suggest, a bit much for a family, so here is a practical alternative....
Cornish Crabbers Ltd in Cornwall produce a scaled down version of the traditional boat, called a Pilot Cutter 30. Secondhand from about £75k.
To find out how this would suit a family just get hold of the book "One Summer's Grace: A Family Voyage Round Britain" by Libby Purves (plenty on Amazon) where she describes her family voyage circumnavigating Britain in one of these boats. Like Tom, Libby tells a good yarn, as well as knowing the subject thoroughly.
When we were thinking about buying the similar Cornish Yawl 24, I had a day sail on the Pilot Cutter 30 out of Falmouth to see if my wife could cope with this sort of boat (she has had an awful lot of back surgery) and she loved it. See http://www.cornishbluesailing.co.uk/pilot.html
We bought the Yawl - I can't afford the bigger boat, extremely pleased with her, and we sail out of Padstow into the Bristol Channel / Atlantic chop-swell-riptide-everything. We are three and a half tons, the Pilot Cutter 30 is just over six tons. Heavy enough to cope with sailing in most weathers, with a good eye on the forecast, and, I would have thought, within the ability of an experienced sailing family.
Yawl have a good time now.
 
Pilot cutters at Helford

Was anchored in the Helford river last May when these two beauties beat up the river in a fresh breeze, then turned and ran back out. Made my day !
 
Those are two of Luke Powells Scillonian pilot cutters. For short handed long distance sailing boats built to Bristol channel ideals would be more suitable in my opinion, with a pole mast and roller reefing for the main to make reducing sail a one man job.
 
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