photography anyone?

akirk

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A strange thought... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I love messing around on water, and also very much enjoy photography...

Would love to take more photos of boats - saily things or those motorised ones - if anyone would like photos...

If we could arrange suitable times / dates, I am happy to come along and shoot photos for no cost at all. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am a reasonable photographer (LRPS), have a decent pro digital SLR and live nowhere near the sea /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif but am only 1 1/2 hours from the South coast (often down around Southampton / Portsmouth), and prob. only a couple of hours from the East coast (North Wales & Scotland a bit far perhaps!) Am happy to travel somewhere...

Ideally we would need to arrange it so that I had a means of photographing your boat from another boat - perhaps several forumites at the same time? of course we would need sunshine & a nice force 4 / 5 for a bit of action! If you want overhead shots - you will need to provide the helicopter!

I have taken a few boat shots recently, though the light was terrible, and I was on a yacht which was racing at the time, so not ideal... they can be seen at: www.alasdairkirk.com log in with user: boat & p'word: photos (they are very crunchy saved for the web...) Nos 6 / 9 / 14 / 18 / 22 are processed, the others not yet...

bad light often gives good b&w as some of those show (I am currently working through the others), though of course sunshine does make it look nice!

If anyone is interested - not a lot to lose, I will happily see if we can find a time when I am free, and you are planning to be on the boat anyway, if the photos are dreadful - it hasn't cost anything - if they are great, then it still hasn't cost anything - I will have enjoyed the day out - hopefully it might work!

Files would be provided in RAW / TIFF or JPEG as preferred and you can print happily at 16x20, and even up to A0 if you wish...

Only constraint would be that I would restrict any commercial use of the photos - you could do what you want with them non-commercially...

so - any takers? could work well, esp. if several boats in the same place at the same time wanted photos...

anyway, worth asking the question...

regards

Alasdair
 

B175Chris

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Sounds like a good idea to me, but begs the question, why wouldnt those on board each boat take turns at photographing each other?
 

BrendanS

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we tried that a few years ago in Solent, and there is a non profit website here that does sames, but it seems it needs some impetus to get things really going
 

akirk

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[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a good idea to me, but begs the question, why wouldnt those on board each boat take turns at photographing each other?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because then I wouldn't have my fun in taking photos /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
it is more that I happen to have some nice expensive camera kit (could have bought a boat instead!), which does give better images than the average camera (especially with someone else at the controls /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), and am looking for the opportunity to keep trying new things... if that happens to match someone else's desire to have a photo of their own boat and they don't have the technology, then could work out...
 

B175Chris

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hehe please dont get me wrong, its a great idea /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif and i wish I' thought of it myself but I dont have the kit, but I say go for it if you get an offer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keep an eye out in the Ad-hoc on water events forum and east coasties meet up quite often with occassional spare berths, keep at it /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Sixpence

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Not sure Clare at PhotoPirates would be keen on your offer of a free pic /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif they're hoping to earn a living from doing it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

akirk

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[ QUOTE ]
Not sure Clare at PhotoPirates would be keen on your offer of a free pic /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif they're hoping to earn a living from doing it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

But with theirs, you will undoubtedly get a better photo /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
It is a difficult debate - one which rears its head on photo forums the whole time - and especially when it gets on to the topic of stock photography!

However, there are two views:
- the pro feels that they are being excluded from commercial opportunities because an amateur has the same quality kit and therefore can offer photos for a cheaper price / free
- the amateur feels that they are under pressure not to compete with the pros, yet wish to enjoy their hobby / get better...

The reality I guess is that there isn't really a threat, if a pro is any good, then the results will speak for themselves - if they are not, then that is another issue /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If anyone does take me up on my offer, then it might only be one or two days in the next x months - hardly a threat to a pro, and probably only with people who wouldn't pay for photos anyway! I am not intending to buy a rib and float around the Solent offering photos free /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I see it more as a way in which I can play with the camera / enjoy time on the water, and where someone else might get a decent photo...
 

BrendanS

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Some years ago, I took out a pro photographer that was Navy photographer

He took some great shots while I helmed. QE2 and QM while they were in Southampton at same time.
 

Sixpence

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From a personal point of view I would always ask you to take the pics , but I would also insist on paying you for them , at least you talk to me yet all they did was e mail me and ignore my reply /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif so that makes you a definate as a better option /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 

cardinal_mark

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Just an observation, but you must be one brave guy to get that close to Sunsail 11 - or do you have a very powerfiul zoom?!!

Mark
 

Lakesailor

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Difficult call.
When I was a commecial photgrapher I was concerned about amateurs doing freeebies.
The issue is not quality of produce, some amateurs are very capable photographers, some are rubbish.
Amateurs tend to have areas of interest which they follow and can be very accomplished, but struggle when they move out of their own sphere. A decent professional will have a fairly broad experience and always be willing to turn down a job they feel they can't do justice to.
That is the crux....
A pro has to produce a good image depsite whatever conditions present themselves. If you're not doing it for a fee you can always excuse yourself as a result of external influences.
But the effort on the part of (in this case) the boat owner will have been very much the same. In the case of a large powerboat there will have been considerable fuel costs, in the case of a yacht, perhaps crew have mustered from various places to line the rail for a close-hauled shot.
So whilst I think your idea of gaining some experience is fine, I would shrink back from offering it as a quasi-service.

The other issue of course is that by offering the service for nothing you are pulling the rug from under some boat-shot services. An owner who may possibly spend a couple of hundred notes getting a great shot of his boat may jump at the chance of a free shot, even if it doesn't quite compete in image terms.
That's a paying job lost to the pro.
Now everyone is entitled to compete, but free shots are not competition, they are decimation.
I would suggest you take some blinding shots on spec and using those as samples offer a service that you charge for, but at least you'll be honest competition and make a few quid whilst you're at it.

In other words, If you think you're hard enough, have a go. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

akirk

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[ QUOTE ]
Just an observation, but you must be one brave guy to get that close to Sunsail 11 - or do you have a very powerfiul zoom?!!

Mark

[/ QUOTE ]

I was in Sunsail 04, and it was more a case of his getting close to me! I think that it was probably taken with a wide-angle lense... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 

johnalison

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I don't see why the pros should worry; after all, wedding photographers seem to get on well with the amateurs because they know they've no competition to wrry about.
 

akirk

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[ QUOTE ]
In other words, If you think you're hard enough, have a go. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

oh I am - definitely /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I understand your position - however:
- commercially, I run a number of businesses, including a design company - we are always up against people who offer to do a website for a mate for a few quid - we usually pick up the pieces and get good business re-writing it a year later /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you offer value for the money you charge a pro is never threatened by an amateur...
- I fail to see why I shouldn't pursue my hobby(s) in whatever way I want - I do sell photography when to a client as part of my business, however I also enjoy taking photos without the commercial pressure in having to find a good result even if the light / conditions / subject etc. is not up to scratch /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think that you also mis-understand what I was saying - your response implies that I was suggesting that people got their boats out especially and at great cost to be my photographic subject /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif far from it, my offer is that if someone already has the boat out, then I am happy to travel (reasonable distances!) to be there at the same time so that I can enjoy what I do at no hassle to the boat owner /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif If that is the case, then there is no additional cost at all for them! If it is expensive to run the engine, then perhaps the owner should get a rowing boat /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

If people feel unhappy to do something for no cost then I am happy for a donation to be given to the RNLI - amount based on results /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It is funny how in this world people are very suspicious of anything which may be free, perhaps I should have said that I charge £10,000 per photo, and then suddenly it would have been an aspirational purchase and people would have been queueing up /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hey ho - anyway, offer still open - if any professional photographer feels threatened, then they are of course welcome to make their case and explain why their photography is so much better (and it may well be!)... I would guess that for most boat owners who have photos and cameras of their own they wouldn't consider paying someone to take a photo for them, but perhaps the opportunity to have one taken on some good kit will be nice for some? and I will have some fun - an excuse to be away from the desk, out of doors and doing what I enjoy...
 

akirk

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[ QUOTE ]
From a personal point of view I would always ask you to take the pics , but I would also insist on paying you for them , at least you talk to me yet all they did was e mail me and ignore my reply /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif so that makes you a definate as a better option /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

very kind of you /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Well if we ever arranged anything - I would be happy for payment to be made - but as a donation to the RNLI, otherwise it just has to be declared and taxes paid to those chaps in London /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

snooks

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I don\'t feel threatened

I don't feel threatened, I'm a full time employee by IPC, and the last time I tried, I could still get into the building, tho that was a fews weeks ago now!!

If I was a freelance I wouldn't be threatened either, the money is in comissions, and one off shots of boat don't really cover the cost of taking them..

for example...A coded bareboat RIB hire in the solent is usually £80-£150/hour (yep you for £80 you have to drive it yourself so you need qualifications) so you'd have to sell at least 3 12x8 just to pay for your RIB, another one to pay for the fuel, assuing you sell them for £30 each and you get the cheapest RIB, then you've got all your other expences to worry about milage at 40p/mile (HMRC rate) camera equipment, storage cards, insurance, lunch...they you've got your computer time to take into consideration, and of course the cost of the computer etc etc etc

If however I was someone who went out and randomly and shot boats, I think I'd feel a little put out. But then again, how many boats are you expecting? say 10? it's hardly going to knock their profits unless you do it week after week.

Owners always want photos of their boat, it's the principal I started out with. This was why I got involed with my local club and used to shoot the events they held...to combat the cost of a RIB I used to be the crew of a rescue boat, on the understanding that if I was needed, my cameras go away. As a rescue boat we'd have to follow the action, we just did it with a camera!

Although I'm not threatened I am slightly confused as to why you would give your work away though :)

You could just go out with a RIB and shoot any boat that happens to be sailing by :)

It's what I do after I finish a job
 

akirk

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Re: I don\'t feel threatened

[ QUOTE ]
... Although I'm not threatened I am slightly confused as to why you would give your work away though :)

You could just go out with a RIB and shoot any boat that happens to be sailing by :)

It's what I do after I finish a job

[/ QUOTE ]

not so much giving the work away as a swap - I get to enjoy messing around on water (ratty misquote!), and taking photos, hopefully someone else gets a nice photo... to me, while money is always wonderfully welcomed, I actually quite enjoy doing things for no charge - there is a totally different feel about it - I think that your breakdown of costs is very interesting, and probably highlights the difficulty in making money at this - if I did it commercially then it becomes less relaxed, more about was it / wasn't it worth it etc.

this way - there is no hassle for the owner, so if the photos are dreadful I just get a ribbing on the forum and no-one has lost out /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

regarding just taking snaps - have you tried to persuade a yacht to stop so that you can rig up the studio lights /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif far too challenging...

and for those who as you say randomly go out and take shots - I really can't see my spending maybe 2 or three days / weekends a year threatening them - if it does then they should be in another business /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If I were planning to do this as a business (which I am not - I have enough to do with other work), then actually the first thing I would do would be to make this kind of offer and spend some time doing it free of charge to set up a portfolio, call it a marketing cost - all fair in competition - so others would have nothing to complain about, however this is purely about having some fun and spending time with a camera, so even less threatening... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Lakesailor

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Perhaps you've got the wrong end of what I am saying.
Snooks' last few lines summed it up. If the pics are going to be better than the average, why not charge for them?

I can't see the point in putting the pressure on yourself to produce the goods (and also the logistics of getting the subject in the right spot with regards to light, background, point of sail, tidy boat, etc (which needs some form of radio contact) when you could just schmooze about shooting boats that look ideal subjects.

Not if you don't get a benefit.
I often take pics of boats on the lake just because they are there, but if someone asks me to, I'll charge.
Just my way of looking at things I suppose.
 
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