Petzl Climbing Harness Instead of Bosuns Chair

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exapp

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Hello,

Was considering buying a climbing harness instead of a bosuns chair as I have heard they are more comfortable and secure if spending time aloft.

Was looking at Amazon and they have a few models all around the same price. Anyone have any opinions? Anybody purchsed a Petzl harness and is it any good?

Exapp
 
Petzl are a reasonable make - and make some good gear. If you were going to climb with it I'd suggest you tried one out as different people do seem to prefer different styles - but for an occasional trip up the mast I'm sure it would be fine - and more comfortable than a bosuns chair
 
I use a Petzl harness-quality climbing kit & so fine from a safety point of view. In my view easier to climb in & move about in than a bosuns chair but not as comfortable to sit in for long periods. I've put a couple of steps at the top of the mast so I can stand at the masthead when working up there.
 
As the others have said, Petzl is a well-known rock climbing make, so very suitable for the job (it's what I use for mast climbing). Choose the model with care though - a lightweight rock harness will be safe but uncomfortable to hang in, so get one with wide padded leg straps and belt.

The harness that is specifically made for mast climbing is the Spinlock Mast Pro, but not cheap IIRC.

I use a Petzl with good padding, but you will still need footloops to take some weight if you are sitting there for more than a few minutes. [Bonnet_bee] But you would have them anyway if you climbed the mast the safer, more sensible way using jammers, and descended by abseil, wouldn't you[/Bonnet_bee] /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I can't speak for the Petzi harness, but bear in mind that most climbing gear is not designed for a salt-water environment. The fittings on my old climbing harness are now quite corroded.

John
 
It shouldn't get wet. I have used a climbing harness for years, much safer but look after it. Great to play with on the cliffs as well. Just down the coast west of here we found bodies protruding oout of the cliff from medieval times.
 
It may not be designed for a saltwater environment, but much equipment spends a lot of time being used on sea cliffs anyway. My experience is that a rinse in freshwater and the occasional spray with WD40 deals with the metalwork, and the webbing isn't affected anyway.

The caving versions of harnesses tend to be more robust, and there may be some with stainless fittings instead of steel or alloy.
 
Strongly recommend the Petzl Navaho, made my living from sitting in one of these.
Will last for years if looked after.
Very comfortable and lots of support, the new ones come with an intigrated chest harness perfect for mast climbing.
 
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Was considering buying a climbing harness instead of a bosuns chair as I have heard they are more comfortable and secure if spending time aloft.


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Used a bosuns chair for the first time other day, having spent huge amounts of time sitting in a harness over the years. No question, a chair is much more comfortable. Even a petzl navaho (norm for industrial work) will make your legs go numb quite quickly. But why not both? Harnesses I think are really usefull onboard. A climbing harness and one of these http://en.petzl.com/petzl/SportProduits?Produit=203 at the mast you can clip off to a cleat, lean back with legs wide open and have 2 hands to reef or whatever. But up the mast you want a big area to be taking the weight, bums are better than legs.
 
Not a lot of people know about this.

If you're planning to spend more than 10 - 15 minutes at the top of a mast then I strongly recommend you don't use any sort of climbing harness.

When using a designated climbing harness for mast climbing it is being used for its wrong purpose. The thigh straps are too thin and can prevent blood flow to the legs and back out from the legs..

When using a climbing harness in its correct way ie rock climbing, you are not actually sitting in the harness, your full body weight only comes onto the harness when you fall. The harness only bears your weight for a little while until you can get back onto the rock or your buddy lowers you to the ground.

Google 'Suspension trauma' http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/ and you will see what I'm on about. Cavers are renowned for dying in their harness when for some reason they become immobilised, this can happen in less than five minutes.

There are industrial coursed that teach about suspension trauma. It's geared for people who use full body harnesses, but it still applies to climbing harnesses.

If you do still want to go down the road of a harness then I'd go for navaho mini boss http://en.petzl.com/petzl/ProProduits?Produit=187 with its purpose seat. If that's too expensive then you can't beat a good old bosuns chain.
 
My training for suspension trauma tells me something different - an industrial harness attached at the back allows the body and legs to hang, and it is almost impossible to exercise the legs enough to prevent the condition arising. A harness attached at the waist would rarely reproduce the same conditions because it is easy to lean back and raise the legs, and up a mast you should have foot straps anyway.

Big Wall climbing may involve hanging in a harness for hours or days at a time, although a lightweight webbing sit sling is usually used to make it more comfortable.

I agree that a sit sling/bosuns chair arrangement is better if you are being winched up a mast, but that is a time- and manpower-consuming operation which is inherently unsafe and outdated compared to modern rope techniques. All IMHO of course (speaking as a sailor and climbing instructor /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
 
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A harness attached at the waist would rarely reproduce the same conditions because it is easy to lean back and raise the legs)

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Not if your immobilised or unconcious it isn't.

My training and courses, over many years of both Industrial and Offshore oil industry work as well as many years rock climbing (not to mention sailing and mast climbing) tells me not to climb masts using a rock climbing harness.

Cut and pasted from this site http://www.suspensiontrauma.info/prevention/ 'A rock climber is usually safe because he or she is using their legs all the time - but if they fall off, stop for lunch, or just get bored and 'dangle', then it's a different matter.'

This is all the same as just dangling in a rock climing harness at the top of a mast.

Please read the whole site.
 
Fair point about an unconcious casualty, but weigh that against the millions of hours which must have been spent "dangling" in rockclimbing harnesses without problem, and the speed and convenience of a harness up a mast.

All MY professional training and experience ( /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) tells me that a SUITABLE harness for mast climbing is safer and more convenient than being hauled up on a halliard. Agreed that an integral seat is even safer and more comfortable, but you will never convince me that being hauled up is safer - with a halliard, the condition of much of which cannot be seen, being run over the edge of a sheave which is also of unkown condition, resulting in more than doubling the stress on the rope compared to climbing it on jammers... but you get my drift /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's all a risk assessment isn't it?

(BTW I have read all the site you linked to, as well as attending advanced outdoor first aid courses where suspension trauma has been highlighted)
 
As one who goes up a mast twice a year due to a little joke by Furuno, I do prefer to climb up a mast ladder, and then use the bosun's chair as safety, and to be able to have two hands for the job.

Your point about halyard and sheaves is very real, to the point that I am not comfortable for anyone else to go up my mast.

Ropes are almost certainly strong enough, but my worry is the shackle or clip that the chair is attached to the rope by.

I have had on of these break when attached to a sail. But I guess it was quite old.

Not sure what the solution is, but always have two halyards so that there is a safety margin built in.

Can't see a huge difference between a bosun's chair and the Petzl thingy??

imho
 
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All MY professional training and experience ( /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) tells me that a SUITABLE harness for mast climbing is safer and more convenient than being hauled up on a halliard.

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This is what I had said in my original posting. A SUITABLE harness. A rock climbing harness is not a suitable harness, a work positioning harness is a suitable harness. And the Petzl Mini Boss is a work positioning harness http://en.petzl.com/petzl/ProProduits?Produit=187 However they are quite expensive, that's why I suggested a good bosuns chair.

I climb yacht masts on a regular basis and I have tried a lot of different climbing harnesses and bosuns chairs, and the one I have settled with and have been using for the last 5 years is the 'Solent Bosuns chair http://www.baselinemarine.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=86&cat=Bosun's+Chairs It can be strapped to the body like a harness and this allows you to walk about on deck with it fitted to you. It is just as quick if not quicker to put on than a climbing or work positioning harness. It also comes with a wooden 'slot in' seat, which allows you to sit comfortably and doesn't compress your thighs like climbing harnesses, which could lead to suspension trauma.

When using this bosuns chair I adopt prussiking climbing tecniques using cammed ascenders, so I do not need to rely on a second person to haul me up the mast, although it is wise to have someone there tending a safety line and pass you up gear.

A dedicated climbing harness is not 'fit for purpose' to be using at the top of a mast.
 
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