Perkins 4107 starting

[Colatsea2]

I have had this engine in the boat for 12 years and was rebuilt 3 years ago. I have always had trouble starting when cold. All mech parts have been checked timming
fuel p/p. lift p/p injectors etc.
I know these engines have a high comp ratio and I think the engines not turning over fast enough, new batteries have been fitted I have tried the original starting aid and does not help.
The starter motor is a bosch make not sure how many teeth on pinion.
Should I be using a differnt starter motor or can you purchase a de-compression
lever fitted to the rocker cover.
I nearly always have to use aerostart spray to start eng when cold.
any help or advice on this would be appreciated for me and my engine.

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[greatspirit]

Hi
Suggest check cylinder compression also recheck injectors (the nozzles can corrode in the marine environment; when where they last replaced?)
Also does the engine run OK once going?
Regards
Tim

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[supermalc]

Is the starting aid working? If you take the air cleaner/intake pipe off, you should see some smoke, even see the flame. Without this working starting is impossible.

Easy start is the quickest way to ruin an engine. Once used, the pressures on starting are so great that head gaskets ect tend to leak, so lowering the compression and making starting harder.

WD40 is preferable if it is essential to get started.

If the engine is in good condition, and the heaters are working they should start, even though a lot of heating may be required.

Others may disagree.

<hr width=100% size=1>Malcolm.
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Take a look at my boating pages.

 

[aitchw]

If, as you say, all the mechanicals are OK and set up right I would concentrate on the heater plugs. The more heat you can introduce to the combustion chamber at start up the better. If they are series wired a fault in any one will affect the others. If you have a warning light set up that you wait for the light to go out on turning on the ignition try going through two or three warming cycles in quick succession before engaging the starter.

High humidity in the cylinder heads is another problem when cold. Extra pre-heating can help that too.

Does the engine re-start easily when warm? If it does, I would be even more convinced there is no major problem.

If the engine runs well once started there will be silly reason for all the starter problems.

Good luck.

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[Guest]

The starting aid ......

a) does it smoke after a short period - eg 20 secs ? There should be a bit more than wisp of smoke drift out of air cleaner. This shows that glow plug is working .....
b) Have you a reservoir attached to this starting aid to feed a tiny bit of diesel to the glow ? Or is it fed from the fuel return line ?
c) what size electrical feed cable is to the starting aid - as this is very nearly a dead short to battery and needs a large ampage on first contact - reducing to moderate amps when glowing
d) How long do you heat the glow for before hitting start ?

My 4107 - which is suffering sticky rings, stood in shed before replacing my old 4-99 for 6 yrs, has no diesel feed to the glow - but starts after a short hold of the key ..... as long as I wiat for the wisp of smoke to come from the air-intake. Once shes warm or not left too long .... she is on the key without start aid.

So I suspect poor starting aid .... as if it starts on Easystart - then she is a runner and no reason why she shouldn't start otherwise.

Oh yes - I don't go with the old advise that once Easystart - always easystart. My old 4-99 was on easystart for years and then I fitted the cold start etc. and she started as though she was new ...... Pity that she got water flooded and seized ......
(Oh and my 4107 was a 'scrapper' that came out of another boat ...... had a clean up and installed ..... no probs).


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
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[AndrewB]

Past answers.

There are several past threads regarding cold starting problems. Suggestions I had earlier this year <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=pbo&Number=472424>HERE</A> may be helpful.

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[Guest]

<<Suggest check cylinder compression also recheck injectors (the nozzles can corrode in the marine environment; when where they last replaced?)>>

I would say not .... check out starting aid first and generally cable connections to starter etc. Poor connections with high resistance etc. can prevent starting.
Check for smoke when aid is activated ...... if you can get to the elctrical feed wire connected to the glow aid ... it gets warm to touich when in use ... does it ? If not put a volt-meter across it to check supply ....

If all else fails then start on engine .... as I said in other reply - my 4107 is a scrapper and has not been serviced or rejuvenated since removal from the other boat years ago .... it has low compression until it warms up - sticky rings - common - it smokes a bit on start-up .... but runs like a good'un, starts on glow alone without diesel feed (I have now connected a feed from the lift pump return - but its not really making much difference ....)

It normally comes down to something simple. When we fitted the engine - we used a croc clip and free lead to battery to fire up the aid ...... once we knew all was ok - we fitted the cable properly ........maybe you can try that ?


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
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[pcatterall]

Regarding starting aids. My 4108 has a little reservoir for 'starting fuel' I have never used this as the engine has always fired up quickly. I guess that this is for deisel (rather than petrol, easystart or other suggestions that I have had)
I suppose that I should check this and the heaters out in case I have to start in really bad conditions. What exactly should I check for??.
Thanks for any advice.

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[Keith]

the head wasn't skimmed was it? as a freind of mine had his 4108 "reconditioned in the US and they skimmed the head, the handbook specifically said don't skim t6he head and when he rang perkins they confirmed what his manual said, apparently it affects the timing/compression to such an extent that itwill not start from cold without easy start but once warm its fine.........keith

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[silverseal]

When the Watermota Sea Panther was introduced, glow plugs were not an option. Ford produced the ultimate bodge. Using a 12 volt starter motor, they started it using 24 volts! Mine is 32 years old and starts within a couple of cranks... Used this same trick with a Mercruiser the other day, which was not starting properly. Bunged 24 volts for couple of seconds through the starter and she started no problem. The Ford handbook does say not to crank the engine for more that 15 seconds... I never have needed to! It might be that your starter motor is due a rebuild?

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[Colatsea2]

Thanks for the replies I will look at getting the compression checked as maybe they skimmed the head during rebuild I will also check the starter motor for amp rating.
The starting aid works o.k ie is doing what its supposed to glows red hot and drip fed from small pot conected to return line.
I think the main problem is the engine not turning over fast enough so will look at compression and starter motor first.
again many thanks.

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[Guest]

Fuill pot with red diesel ...

a) Fill pot with red diesel
b) Check good supply of 12V to glow terminal
c) Take of air filter and you don't have to look inside intake .... just across top is good enough.
d) switch on starting aid .. glow - wait about 20secs.
e) There should be a trail of smoke drift out of intake pipe ... if diesel is at the aid - then you may get a pop as the diesel ignites.
f) switch off aid.

Thats it ....

So starting routine is :

Turn key to starting aid position for 20 secs, then turn to start postion and start engine. Once started return key to running position.

NO rocket science to this one .......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
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[capsco]

Re: Fuill pot with red diesel ...

when the starting aid has "burst into flames"the engine is cranked with the flame drawn into the manifold to preheat the combustion air

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[Guest]

Re: Fuill pot with red diesel ...

expanded explanation of my point e) ...... diesel ignites etc.

Crude - but effective. When I first learned about this - I thought blimey !! But yes it works.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ... and of course Yahoo groups :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/