PBO - Twin Keel Boats

[Habebty]

If I was writing an article on twin keel boats from the dawn of time to present day, I would have certainly included all those mentioned in this months PBO. But also would have mentioned probably one of the most significant recent designs by none other than Stephen Jones i.e. the Sadler 290 - given a rave review by PBO two years ago.
The performance seems to defy the laws of physics (waterline length and hull speed etc.)

This is a boat that sails better than most similar sized fin keel boats and certainly better than any other twin keel boat. So why ignore it in favour of Legends, (or was the article concerned only with volume built craft?).
Perhaps I felt I needed to redress this omission because I feel so strongly about this incredible design.
Yes, I do own one and still can't believe the consistently good performance acheived despite my basic level of knowledge of sail control and rig tweaking. I have had it for just over two years now and logged about 4500 miles. I have sailed in all sorts of conditions - mostly singlehanded and always feel confident in the boats abilities - if not mine.

No I'm not on commission or related to the builders, just happy to have found the boat thats right for me and glad to fill the gap that seemingly occurred at the end of the PBO article. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Sans Bateau]

You might just find advertising revenues have a small part to play. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[bigwow]

"This is a boat that sails better than most similar sized fin keel boats and certainly better than any other twin keel boat".
Bet it doesn't sail better than my twin keel boat!

 

[Lakesailor]

I posted a link a while ago from an American naval architect's site in which he argued the case for twin (bilge) keels.
I had a bilge keeler at the time. Not a cutting edge design. Some points he made were born out by my experience.
-On a broad reach a bilge keeler can be very quick.
-Running they can be extremely sluggish.
-Close hauled they lose out by making a lot of leeway.
-Heeling can be reduced by the leverage of the windward keel and the leeward keel can be more vertical, depending on the splay in the design.
-In extremis their behaviour can be unpredictable as the geometry of the forces moves about below the waterline as they heel.
-Rudders generally stall more easily as they are out of the flow (unless twin rudders are employed)

On balance, as I sail in non-tidal and quite deep waters I find a fin keel much better, especially with a mind to the leeway. Simple fact is I can get up the lake against the wind in half the time.

Horses for courses.

 

[ColinHuggins]

I sailed a Seawolf 30 for years, and I would replicate Wherry's enthusiasm for that design too. We did well at inter-club races and it was not unusual for disappointed rivals to walk past and squint underneath the boat to count keels for themselves! What a pity that David Feltham the Designer left finishing the marque to a cruddy builder.

 

[matt1]

Agree, the S290 should have been mentioned becuase she is the latest twin keel design in the UK and employs a very different approach to the keels, not seen on twin keelers upto this point. Look at the Round Britain race results for proof of how she sails. Also agree with Lakesailor, to some extent, about twin keelers perhaps being a bit slower downwind (often not the point of sail they are normally criticised for!) but would be interested in which twin keeler he had that made the leeway upwind? Most of the twin keelers I have sailed have been very good upwind and certainly if you have the high aspect rig combination that Hunter's use there is little to tell between a fin and twin going uphill. I thought it was a good article though. I always maintain that a well sailed twin keel boat will sail at least as well if not better than a moderatly sailed fin. They also roll a lot less downwind so in many ways do make very good cruising boat.

 

[Lakesailor]

My boat was an old '70s 18foot Valiant which didn't have the advantage of modern design. I would imagine the fin keel version wasn't so much better.
The article I refered to is Bray Yacht Design

I'm leaping about between 2 forums here.

 

[Birdseye]

[ QUOTE ]
If I was writing an article on twin keel boats from the dawn of time to present day, I would have certainly included all those mentioned in this months PBO. But also would have mentioned probably one of the most significant recent designs by none other than Stephen Jones i.e. the Sadler 290 - given a rave review by PBO two years ago.
The performance seems to defy the laws of physics (waterline length and hull speed etc.)

This is a boat that sails better than most similar sized fin keel boats and certainly better than any other twin keel boat. So why ignore it in favour of Legends, (or was the article concerned only with volume built craft?).
Perhaps I felt I needed to redress this omission because I feel so strongly about this incredible design.
Yes, I do own one and still can't believe the consistently good performance acheived despite my basic level of knowledge of sail control and rig tweaking. I have had it for just over two years now and logged about 4500 miles. I have sailed in all sorts of conditions - mostly singlehanded and always feel confident in the boats abilities - if not mine.

No I'm not on commission or related to the builders, just happy to have found the boat thats right for me and glad to fill the gap that seemingly occurred at the end of the PBO article. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps PBO are a bit more dispassionate than you are.

 

[maxwell edison]

I don't think it's a question of PBO being dispassionate. They are being inconsistent.

Their Boat Test of the Sadler 290 is headed "Achieving the Impossible" it goes on to say "no other production boat I've sailed comes close to matching the Sadler 290", it talks about extraordinary speeds. Wherry is being very fair when he descibes the review as a rave review. Yet it seems it now does not warrant a mention.

Etap Owner may have a point as I have never seen an advert for the 290. But I do know that the order book is full for 2007 and orders have been taken for 2008. That, I suggest, speaks for itself.

Unlike Wherry, I do not own one.

 

[rampartyachts]

Very interesting thread, to which I am strangely drawn to add my first ever comments.
I must say, I was a little disappointed that the Sadler 290 wasn't mentioned in the report, but each to his own I suppose. PBO have been very supportive of the 290 over the last few years (especially in articles written by their own journos). You'll note that the article was written by an independant chap who was the stalwart of Hunter for many years. Personally, I think the selection of twin keelers Andy comes up with was very good. Bar a couple maybe.
Oh, and thanks to Wherry for the comments. Delighted you still love your boat.

Incidentally, and trying to stay as dispassionate as possible, we are the builders of the 290. Delighted to say the order book is somewhat lengthy. Up the Brits I say.

I've rewritten this message a dozen times, trying not to get myself in trouble.

 

[jenku]

I would be glad to publish that piece in the Twin-Keeler Newsletter though! Passion and all...