pbo cross talk

[Johnjo]

There I was reading PBO thoroughly enjoying it until I came to page176
entitled cross talk,
I quote,
Of course sailing is for the well-heeled, It is essentially a sport for the
prosperous middle class.
And on,
The average television viewer, in a inner city council flat, could not
conceive of having sufficiant money to spend on owning and maintaining a boat.
And on,
Clive is proud that he "Just managed to keep afloat" by renting a swinging
mooring. To the average Briton renting a swinging mooring requires having
a spare income to which he can never aspire.
And on,
Last summer Iwas anchored in Bressay during a gale when a local fish farm operator came by to throw me some newspapers to stem my boredom,
To our mutual amazement, we realised we had known each other years earlier
when we both canoed, his greeting was "I never thought that I would know
anyone rich enough to own a yacht"

This I find very disparaging, Myself and my partner are on a low income as
are a lot of people in Cornwall, We use to rent a council house, which we
purchased through hard work, we worked harder and saved to buy our boat,
Yes it is a struggle some times to keep up with the ever rising costs,
But to read this type of journalism does nobody any favours, especially PBO,
in my opinion,
regards mike

 

[Strathglass]

I had been thinking that here at last PBO has at last printing some 'practical' articles.

A bit better than S.....g T...y explaining how to move the draft on a sail forward by tightning the luff in a beginers article.

This continued until the last page of the PBO. Who in their right senses would authorise articles like that?

I hope the new editor is not in control yet.

Sailing is not for 'middle classed' rich who can pour money into their hobby. Even if some sections of the trade try to perpetuate this myth.

It is for whoever want to get involved in it at any level.

Said enough just now

Iain

 

[halcyon]

Saves me some money this month.

Wonder were it puts someone with a new motor cruiser in a marina? if us yacht owners on a swinging moorin are middle class, and the mooring charges have gone up £5 this year.

Brian

 

[bigmart]

Here is a quote from a post I put in another thread on this forum.

"My first Boat that I could sleep on, a 24ft 4/5 berth Sailor cost me £2750 complete with all the gear I needed to sail it. I have just moved from the club where I kept it. Membership fee, Mooring Charge & Harbour Dues £197 per annum. Third party insurance £127 per annum. I have sailed it to France & the Channel Isles.

I sail in the Solent by the way.

Since I started sailing I have given up Smoking 40 per day & visiting the Pub where I used to drink an average of Four pints a day seven days a week.

Now I suspect that you can do the maths as well as I. All I am saying here is if you want it enough you will make the sacrifices neccessary.

Another point regarding the price of boating. I belong to an organisation the takes young people, from all walks of life, for One Week sailing trips in large yachts they visit ports along the South Coast, Northern France & the Channel Islands. If they do well they can bid for the opportunity to take part in the Tall Ships Race. The cost of this? Oh its massive, we charge £60 per week incuding food & all the gear needed.

Boating is not the perogative of the rich & it never should be!"

It wasn't mentioned above but I kept that boat for Eight years.

I was totaly incenced by that article. The kind of morons who promote the attitude eluded to, in that piece of trash, don't deserve the privelige of breating the same air as the rest of us let alone the experience of owning a boat.

One can only be amazed at the editorial team of PBO allowing that disgracful diatribe. I purchased a subscription to PBO at the Southampton Boatshow now I must seriously reconsider whether to cancel it or not.

Martin

 

[Magic_Sailor]

Mike

I've just read it after seeing your comments. I have to say that in large part I agree with the author - although I think the article is a bit too "look at me, see how well I've done" - which you seemed to feel as well. It sticks in the craw when people do that. However..

Certainly it's only been recently in my life due to income change that I was able to consider getting a yacht - although I'd always said I wanted one some day about 20 or more years ago.

If you're talking about a cruiser (type) then the few thousand minimum outlay and annual running costs for safety equipment, clothing, berthing/mooring etc put it out of the reach of most average families.

I don't know exactly but average families probably have an income of say £20K, a couple of kids, a car (absolute necessity these days almost) - often to make ends meet, at least one of the couple might be doing a separate part time job - there'd be no spare left (time or money) for much else.

Remember, I am talking in generalities here. I get the feeling that most "posters" on this forum are not too badly off - questions/comments tend to be along the lines of "which plotter shall I buy" or "how do I get a marina berth in Brittany" rather than "where can I find some cheap shoes".

Of the fifty people at my company - only 2 have a yacht - and they're not from the general workforce. Again to illustrate my point.

You seem to have made getting your yacht a major goal and I genuinely admire you for it - but most people clearly cannot do that.

All the best.

Magic

 

[Johnjo]

This article should never have seen the light of day, How on earth was it
allowed to be printed???????
It stinks of elitism and IS INSULTING to all who live in council accomadation
or who happen to be on a low wage. Who is responsible ????
Ultimatly it must the editor, Is this the type of article that we are
going to see more of now that Sarah Norbury is the editor

Rod Carr had the bottle to come on the forums on behalf of the RYA and explain
its position.
Will sarah do the same for PBO??????
PBO has taken a bit of flak recently concerning the content of its magazine and
I thought that this edition was a great improvement in content until I came to
that article, How very disapointing!!!!!!!!!!

 

[clyst]

"Never thought that I would know anyone rich enough to own a yacht"----------Like saying -------rich enough to own a car" since most 2nd hand modest size yachts cost less than a decent motor. running cost per year ?. costs me under 200squids for moorings and 150 for insurance, hardly need to be rich to enjoy the delights of sailing !! IMHO

regards

Terry

 

[Johnjo]

Magic there are hundreds of people on low incomes or who live in council
accomadation who have low cost boats, you do not have to spend thousands
to get afloat and have a good time,
Down here on the River Fal tidal berths on the upper reaches of the river are free of charge, week in week out people wait for the tide to take their boats
out and back again, sailing does not have to revolve around marinas and
yacht clubs, many of these boats do not have a great monetary value but their
owners keep them in good condition, And I dare say many of them read PBO,
Yes I agree that a lot of people on these forums are not badly off but they
are not the people who buy low cost boats!
You do not have to have a cruiser to go sailing!!!
all the best
mike

 

[Johnjo]

Magic what really incenced me was the reference to council tennants and
the average Briton, Why should;nt a council tennant earn enough to buy
and keep a boat or the average Briton for that matter,
regards
mike

 

[bigmart]

I'm glad you spelt incenced that way. I wasn't sure it was right.

I have known a Council Tennant, a Rat Catcher, a Mini Bus Driver, an Operative in a Fridge Factory, a Handyman, a Coach Driver & of course myself, all of whom have managed to own boats on a real budget.

Boat ownership doesn't neccessarily mean high cost, all you need is a real desire to make it happen.

Of course there will always be those who cannot believe that any lowly type can afford it unless he is a Drug Baron or something. This type of snob is the person that gets all boaties a bad name.

Lets face it we all know what the average man in the streets image of yachties is & we all know how unfounded it is.

Martin

 

[Strathglass]

I am tarred with the 'Rich' image just because the boat I am building is 33 ft long.
Even if it has now taken me nearly twelve years and has been done totally by myself.
I am on an extremely low income but fortunately don't live on the south coast and the boat will be on a mooring when it is finished.

At one time I had two new cars, raced a yacht four times a week and was relatively well off.
But, things change I don't have to give up sailing just because I do not have the £XXX thousands of disposable income which some people seem to think is part of the qualification for entry to their 'club'.

I do it because I enjoy it.

Iain

 

[kgi]

well here we go again!!!!! its supposed to be PRACTICAL boat owner, if this is a reflection of the new editorial team then they have probably just shot themselves in the foot, its a sad state of affairs and i'm with mike on this one, if they wish there sales to stay bouyant then don't print rubbish, print PRACTICAL information, i personally spent practically every penny i had to buy my boat, i'm not a yottie either, i wear walking boots (much more comfortable than deck shoes) and ex military gear for the clothing side ( hard wearing.. and cheap) this editorial is for those of us that aspire to bigger boats but are perfectly happy with what we have, i also think there is a greater degree of comradeship amongst the small boat community, and long may it continue......BTW mike where in Cornwall are you exactly?.........keith

 

[BrendanS]

If you look at where this article is placed, and it's title, it is meant to be provocative, and is not typical of the rest of the content of the rest of the magazine nor written by a staff member.

If you read the article in full, he is responding to a previous correspondent in much the same way that we argue points here. His final point is that to encourage youngsters to take part in the sport, it has to become affordable.

If you feel strongly, why not write a rebuttal, and send it in. That's the whole point of this section of the mag. The author is not a staff writer, just someone who has an opinion to express

 

[kimhollamby]

Thanks for these comments BrendanS - they are I'm sure right on the button.

I don't know anything about the general background of this article and I've not read it either. But no-one I know on the PBO team believes that saling should be elitist and so it is important that this feature is kept in context. If you disagree then by all means write to Sarah with the counter comment; I'm sure she would be very happy to receive it. You can mail here at sarah_norbury@ipcmedia.com

Don't forget that many of the people working on magazines are doing their boating on a budget and so there is considerable affinity with the views expressed here (although it is also vital to be in tune with the people who can afford larger boats than our personal budgets). My first house was 50 per cent of a shared ownership scheme; it was all I could afford when working on Practical Motor Cruiser magazine.

If the punchline of the article was it's important to guard against the disappearance of realistically priced entry level boating then hurrah and hurrah again. If the article offended because of one man's subjective views about who can afford what then I'm sorry but just how PC do you want our titles to become?

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[Johnjo]

Kim
thank you for the prompt reply,
While I do realise the contex in which the article was written and
basically agree with the point he was making, But why the need to
assume that all council tennants are penniless, If I am being over sensitive
then I apoligise,
But the mans remarks have obviously touched a nerve with me, when I first
started boating I lived on a council estate, myself and several others started
our boating in canoes and have worked up from there, some still live on that
estate and now own some quite expensive boats, but they all started out the same way, at the bottom,
And all learnt a lot along the way, maintainance / seamanship, these are not
the people who's answer to a problem is to solve it with a cheque book,
The trend today seems that if you do not X amount of pounds then boating isout of the reach of ordinary people, Not all jump straight in with a £30.000 boat
then stick it on a marina, Again my thanks for getting back.

regards mike

 

[kimhollamby]

Common fallacies

There are several common fallacies that many of us find a bit silly. One is that everyone who owns a boat is 'rich' (whatever that means). Another is that those who own more expensive boats ('more expensive' being another marvellously subjective term) do not like to do some or all of the maintenance themselves.

You can righly give editors a bit of stick from time to time on things that creep through but I can at least assure you that we are all, as a breed, acutely aware of these blanket assumptions and just how wrong they are /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[kimhollamby]

Cross talk canned

Just had a quick chat with Sarah (up to her neck with PBO production, publication day minus three and counting) and she has confirmed that Cross talk was an inherited series that she doesn't much care for anyway. Sarah had gritted her teeth and left it in place, because the series had only just started but now I think it is not long for this world.

Perhaps talking out of turn here and letting one out of the bag but believe the back page might become the personal fiefdom of one Jake Kavanagh, to highlight some of the lighter-hearted things that happen afloat. As the only person ever to manage to sell cartoons to a German boating magazine (that's a bit of a white lie, probably, but worth the telling) his irrepressible sense of what makes us come back time and time again for more punishment, sorry, fun, should make easier reading just before you slide out of the back of the issue.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[wpsalm]

Re:rich yauhtys

someone left some old yaughting mags and PBOs here in the e-mail palace , don,t know how you guys manage cruise around your own coast 10 pounds a day to anchor, would like to spend a summer in the UK but don,t think I,ll ever be rich enough......

 

[c4pt]

Hi.
Just had to stick my motty into this one. Judging by the prices of marinas and marine equipment its not suprising that 'being well off' was the conclusion. However it can be done on the cheap if you don't have the means to buy' an out of the box package'. My boat was bought as a shell on trailer with a few bits and pieces (mast ,boom, pushpit and pulpit and various lenghts of wood) for £300. With some blood sweat and newly invented swear words it will be afloat this summer with sails a 2nd hand outboard, a porta loo and rock all else. (life jackets and flares of course) So it can and should be done. lets not all get sucked into the 'must have' society. As with most people that I know, the disposable income is disposed of long before I get hold of it. So its a few quid here and there for bits or materials and make, adapt or salvage the rest. It will never be a gin palace but it will be all mine.

 

[FlyingSpud]

It is possible to sail on a tight budget, but difficult and this puts a lot of people off.

But why does sailing cost a lot? As others have mentioned elsewhere, almost every GRP boat that has been built in the last 30/35 years is still in existence. Therefore, there should be an ever-increasing supply of second hand boats coming onto the market driving prices down.

But oddly, that is not what has happened. Most GRP boats seems to roughly hold their cash value as far as I can see, and yet we are told that demand is weak and not enough people are coming into the sport, so how come the prices hold up?

(By the way, the first boat I had was built in a council house kitchen)