Paying in advance for a new boat?

[andyball]

We've recently been trying to buy a new Beneteau....
after waiting 6 weeks for one "dealer" to demonstrate a boat that was "ready to go",we tried it (they'd lost the keys,so it was "hot-wired"),liked it,so we asked for a quote for one with a specific engine.
After 3 weeks, they rang to explain that they hadn't yet got around to it....since then: nothing.

We're now trying to deal with Dickies Yacht Sales of Swansea.....my question is this.
Is it normal for boat dealers to ask for full payment 10 days before the boat is completed at the factory?.
(the boat is not a "one off", or in some unusual colour)

I called a Jeanneau dealer: they said payment on delivery....

20% deposit seems ok, but payment in advance? I wouldn't accept that for a new car, so why a boat?.

What are your experiences?....are Dickies trying it on?.

 

[Guest]

I've been asked for this too, and complied, for £200k plus boat, otherwise (they say) no boat will be delivered. Quite strange. So, no IMHO they aren't especially trying it on, or at least any more than others already. But weird, and boat mags lettem get away with it. What we need is nice pressure group with beefy motoring press, Top gear to identify ther ratbags and give us 3 year engine warranties. Oops we already get up to five years warranty. Well, anyway, do some complaining.

Psychologists note:
Shortly before delivery of boat is a low ebb for a customer: at this point the customer is realising the problems of ownership, feeling the extent of the expenditure, but has no payback in terms of glorious boat to swank around in/on. The happiest customers are those with the lowest expectations, so IMHO all boat deliverers should advise of late late deliveries and deliver early, only include the cheap stuff and upgrade to expensive stuff later, and deliver boat with a fault that stops engines working, but fixable within minutes no problem at all sir happy to be of service. And nice flowers on the table and bottle of fizz. One final note: under no circumstances use "customer surveys" as a blanket means of
establishing what a customer really thinks. Big companies do this and think it's dead good: the happy ones fill in a load of 10/10, butthe pissed of ones realise how crap it was, and don't respond properly if at all.

 

[byron]

CASH ON DELIVERY MATE. However if you are paying for a boat in advance of delivery it is essential that full title passes to you immediately. Scenario: You pay for boat, company goes into liquidation, you stand in line with rest of them because title remains the company's and becomes just another company asset to be sold by the Receiver.
This situation arose early last year with a friend. Luckily he had ensured that he had title but it still took him several weeks and a 'dawn raid' to get possession. Having said all that he still ended up with a partially completed boat and is having to fork out to get it finished.

©2001
www.education-jobs.co.uk
www.alexander-advertising.co.uk<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by byron on Tue Oct 30 15:42:49 2001 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[stewart]

Sunseeker post their std payment terms in the brochure and as I recall it's something like 20% deposit, 50% when engines at factory and 30% on delivery. I could be wrong but it's not too far out.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Andy, Byron's comments are correct. You dont want to pay for something you dont have title to; even if you can show legal title, in the event that the supplier goes into liquidation before delivery, you will still have to prove it and that might mean going to court. You cannot rely on a 'dawn raid' to recover the boat especially as it might still be in France.
I guess the reason that the dealer is asking for payment 10 days before delivery to you is that he has to pay the manufacturer for the boat on ex-factory delivery and he does'nt want the cashflow problem this presents. Ask yourself whether you want to deal with a company that may have a cashflow problem?
Personally, whilst I might agree to putting down a small deposit, say 10 or 20% (against title for this proportion), I certainly would'nt agree to full payment before delivery under any circumstances. Bear in mind also that this puts you in a very difficult position should the boat arrive with major faults. You have no leverage against the dealer to force him to put the faults right

 

[Boatman]

Andy All the above comments are relevant, However the terms you have been quoted are quite normal. I shopped around a few years ago to buy a rag & sticks piece of kit from the French crowd. Not only did I try the UK, but France, Spain and a few other places most of them were a standard 20% at start of production or with order (if not the same then a 10% deposit required with other 10% due at start) and balance due before delivery my delivery occured approx 10 days after title passed since I had to insure the boat from that point.

If you want horror stories look at what happened with the Westerly yard where a number of people had title issues which went from who owned the partially completed hull to who had title to the hatches that weren't yet fitted.

Happy hunting

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You hand over the bank draft - you get the keys to your new car immediately. You transfer the money to a solicitor - you get the keys to your new home immediately
Why is it different with boats and why do normally sane people risk hundreds of thousands of pounds in this way?
I knew a bloke who bought one of the last new Fairline Turbo 38's from a now defunct dealer not a million miles from Bedford. He handed over the full payment to this dealer and went to Harwich to take delivery of his brand new boat only it was'nt there. The dealer told him it was Fairline's fault but when he rang Fairline, he found that the dealer had'nt paid them for the boat so they were'nt releasing it and there's nothing they could do. It took a further 2 weeks of threats, verbal, physical and legal before the dealer paid Fairline and this bloke got his new boat
The buyer may well have been able to prove legal title but if there's nothing to take title to...........

 

[andyball]

If you do pay up front.....

do you get a serial no. so you can insure the boat as soon as you've paid?.

Does a typical insurance policy cover the boat "before delivery".

I suppose if anything happens to the boat after you've paid for it, but before delivery (fire at the factory,damage in transit, for example)....then you've bought a damaged boat? .....your boat : your responsibility.

Dickies haven't even granted us a reply to our questions about paying in advance.....Their "contract" is also laughably vague about the engine and delivery is mentioned as "to UK" rather than to our yard (they charge £850 extra for delivery to the UK, then £80 extra,extra for del. to Hayling Island).

Hmmmm.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Forget the so called standard terms, take Westerly as an example where many people paid for a boat they did not get, all they had was loads of hassle and a very depleted bank account. I would not pay for something I was not able to take immediate delivery of, there's always someone who could run off with your cash!!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A 'typical' policy will only cover the boat when its under the control of the owner/skipper (or words to that effect). If the boat is under somebody else's control eg in a factory, on the hard etc, you could probably get an amendment to a standard policy or arrange a separate policy. If, then, something happened to 'your' boat between the factory and delivery to you, then a claim could be made.
And yes, if you pay for the boat before delivery and, therefore, take title to it, then any damage to the boat from the moment you have taken title is down to you and your insurer although the lawyers may try to prove a duty of care against any other parties involved
£850 sounds quite reasonable to deliver a boat from France to UK and a further £80 to Hayling Island does'nt seem bad either. I dont know Dickies personally but they've been in the boat business for a while so I believe they are reputable. If their terms are unreasonable, why not propose alternative terms acceptable to you on a take it or leave it basis? The customer is king after all

 

[DepSol]

I bought a Jeanneau Leader 805 by cheque and buggered off the next day to France, stayed for the weekend then went up to alderney for a week. Bank had left numerous messages on my mobile, which I left off, asking if it was ok to clear cheque. Caught up with them 3 days later...dealer must have been sweating a bit although he did have title to my 11 yr old cruisers international before I left!!!

It was good of him to be so trusting however, I know some dealers have been burnt the same way but the person ran off with the boat and the cheque bounced like a rubber ball!

What type of Beneteau is it??

 

[andyball]

Deleted User: you suggested proposing alternate terms.....I did that on 17th,and have heard nothing yet.

Depsol: it's a little Ombrine 550 WA.


Thanks for all the input

 

[DepSol]

Nice little boat the Ombrine. Tell them heres a deposit and I 'll give you a post dated cheque for the day the boat is suposed to be here, if the boat fails to arrive I'll cancel the cheque and if it is not in 100% cond I want something in writing to amend repair the defect or I will again cancel the cheque. If I am to trust you that the boat is in perfect order then you are to trust me that you have my payment.

PS IF you need any covers, give us a shout, I do the Benetau original ones alot cheaper than the agent!

 

[ToMo]

I think that we (the customers) are in the hands of each other!
If a few of us accept terms of payment in advance, then this will become 'the norm', I would doubt very much if this would be tried in France, and I'm sure that that any dealer in America would go out of business if he tried this on there!
If as customers we are all "firm but fare" these sort of practices will die out fairly quickly.

ToMo

 

[andyball]

Does anyone else think that the practice of charging extra for delivery to the UK is a little "off" too?.

Imagine a dealer of US or Australian made boats trying that one.

 

[petem]

When I bought my Fairline two years ago I was told that Fairline would not release the boat until they had been paid by the dealer in full. Therefore I would have to pay before it left the factory. Amazingly the boat was ready EARLY, in fact earlier than I wanted. So, unbeknown to me the dealer temporarlily funded the purchase, paid Fairline and had it delivered to Chichester for the PDI. When I was ready to collect it I wired the money to the dealer and took delivery the same day. All seemed very slick to me but I doubt many dealers would do the same.

By the way if you pay prior to shipping I would secretly have the transit removed. Just in case it falls off the lorry and they claim it's your boat!

Also the BMIF should be able to advise you on these matters. Believe they have a web site somewhere.

 

[ArthurWood]

If in doubt, don't is my motto. In this case I wouldn't deal with Dickies. Furthermore, a friend of mine bought a new Beneteau yacht through an agent on the other side of the UK and had several problems upon delivery. Had to take them to court to get satisfactory resolution.

 

[KevB]

I am currently in negotiations for a new boat, what the dealers has said is - I pay the 20% deposit when I place the order, when the boat arrives and I have had a sea trial and agree everthing is ok then I pay the ballance. Seems a fair deal to me.

 

[ArthurWood]

KevB-I agree. My previous message was addressed to andyball regarding "if in doubt don't."

 

[andyball]

Thanks everyone....

I'll speak to the dealer again tomorrow.....had a message today to say he's been out of the office for a while......maybe that's why I haven't heard anything?....