Patents and cunning (boaty) inventions

Channel Ribs

Channel Ribs

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I have a cunning plan...

Actually not that cunning, which is why I would like to post details of it here - to see what the assembled forumites make of the idea.

Obviously though I would like to protect it before posting details on an open forum, what would you recommend?

I have in the past posted a set of sketches etc to myself and kept them sealed for use as proof of concept/date. Is that sort of thing any good?
 
Send a copy to your lawyer and ask for confirmation of receipt. Don't disclose anything till you have done so, please !
 
What you describe was the time-honoured way of protecting copyright in written work. I believe it still applies (wrong kind of lawyer so not absolutely sure, sorry) as a way of establishing the date on which you created your written work.

If your IP consists of sketches, it sounds like it could either be an invention (for which you would require a patent) or a design (for which you would require a registered design right). In either case, your safest course is to apply to the UK Intellectual Property Office (the new name for the Patent Office) for one of those rights to be registered in your name. The cost is not unreasonable, and if you are prepared to spend more there are professional patent agents who can advise and assist you for a fee.

It would be well worth a trawl through the UK IP Office web site - this link takes you straight to the section on 'how to protect your IP'.

At any rate, I wouldn't post your ideas here until you've had a look at the registration options for patents and designs.
 
Patent search and application first before you show anyone who has not signed a non disclosure agreement.

Best route to find out how or if it is commercially viable is to talk to a manufacturer. Many are willing to look at new ideas having signed a confidentiality/non disclosure agreement and give advice.

You can not give any details to anyone who has not signed this type of agreement, as that is one of the questions in applying for a patent. The idea can not have been in the public domain. So public forum before patent would not be a wise idea.

I had a lot of help from a manufacturer, which was probably more useful than an open forum. They know their market very well and they also know the problems you will run into.

This is what I have either learnt or been informed of when developing a new device. The send details to yourself recorded delivery sealed signed is an insurance policy against future disputes as I see it.
 
I've raised four patents in my life and I agree that disclosure will prevent you getting a patent whatever you do to lodge the invention date. If you show it to us you can;t then patent it. You might also want to consider the cost - raising and maintaining a patent is horrendous.
 
Patenting is an expensive business and takes time. Aside from taking some years to achieve grant of preotection you are also subjected to a window of time where you may have been beaten to the post. I filed once and 18months later found a similar device filed 3 months prior. The one year for inital short term allows you time to investigate your idea safe in the knowledge that your priority date has been established.

The cost of an initial short term patent , which establishes the priority date is only a grand or two. You then have the option of a pct which is about 10k ish. which buys you another year or so in most countries (since most have signed up to the PCT) at which time you need to commit to regional and national phases which when it starts to get expensive. Generally you will select certain countries since coverage in the entire world is very expesive and defending a patent in developing economies would be pretty pointless. Cost at this phase can grow and grow, esp if translations are involved.

Unless you plan on commercialising the idea on a scale that at the very least recoups all your costs ie at least 50k then patenting is not worthwhile
You must also allow for defending your patent. If someone does infringe you will be faced with significant legal bills to prevent them from expoiting your idea. There are insurance policies to cover this.
The easiest route is to license the idea to a reputable company with pockets deep enough to defend the patent and to market and sell enough of the item for both of you to make money.
If your idea is attractive to them they may also cover the cost of patenting (assuming you have at least filed the initial patent personally) . Indeed they may be simply interested in buying your idea completely (you assign the patent to them for a fee).
Depending on where you live this may be subject to tax since it is 'property' Often it is better for your own company (more legal costs) to own a patent and then sell the company (capital gain).
If you do disclose to somebody get them to sign a non disclosure agreement (hard to defend legally but at least you will have a signed and dated document lest they try copying in the future)
Keeping you notes/dates can be important in USA since first to invent rather then first to file patent can matter (if you can be show you were actively pursuing the idea).

Before you spend a penny I would trawl the patent databases to make sure your idea is not already protected.
www.freepatentsonline.com is the easiest place to start. espacenet is another good place. You can subscribe to the likes of Delphion which is also very good.

This will also spark you imagination and you will consider lots of variations of the theme, other applications, other materials etc etc. Possibly even other novel approaches.

best of luck
 
Used to work in a industry that had innovation at its heart, and we simply wouldn't see any 'inventors' that wanted to sell us their ideas, for the reason that if it was something we'd already thought of and were working on, or planning to work on, we'd get into expensive arguments about whose idea it really was. It was easier to say to no to everybody and employ good NPD guys of our own, in the knowledge that once every decade we might miss out on a really bonzer idea.
 
Yes, I knew a company like that. Unfortunately, one of the guys they turned away really had come up with an idea that revolutionised the market. Their competitor wasn't so churlish and dominated the market for quite a few years after.

Rick
 
Thanks for all the constructive suggestions, which have made my head spin. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think design registration may be the way forward, it is really a twist on a long established concept so it is not life and death in any event. I will try a few searches and put down some sketches which I will post to my law chap, then pop some details on a site and hopefully get some feedback from you chaps.

Thanks again.
 
Sounds exciting.

If I can add something. If the invention turns out to be one that is best protected by a Patent rather than a registered design, and if you file a patent, still don't disclose the invetion unless the person you are disclosing to has signed an NDA (non disclosure agreement) also called a CDA. Note that it is not essential to have a signed NDA, you can have an implied contract of non disclosure if both parties understand that what is being said shouldn't be disclosed, but having a signed bit a paper is safest.

The reason you don't want to disclose is that you then have the option of dropping and refiling your patent should you need to.

Why might you want to do that?

One reason is that if you want to apply for funds to develop your idea, you will always be asked if you have a patent (assuming the idea is a of the nature that it is protected by a Patent, as opposed to design rights for example) and will probably be more likely to get funding if you do have patent protection in place....carrot in front of donkey etc. The problem is that you may patent too early, in 12 months you would have to proceed to PCT which is very expensive, and unless you have a big budget you may want to have sold the idea, or established your company, before going to PCT. If you haven't disclosed the idea, you can simply drop and refile the UK patent, which is comparitively cheap. Though you will lose the original priority date.

Make sure you undestand the difference between what design rights protect and what a patent protects. Or more importantly what you can't protect with design rights or patents. I'm no expert, but I think design rights protect the look and feel of an invention, if you want to protect function and how it does something then you may need a Patent.

Plenty of information online, or consult an IP Lawyer. It looks like there are a few people on here who've been down this road, so a good place for advice. I've just progressed a UK patent filing to PCT. To give an idea of the costs it was £5500 in total. That paid for a patent attorney to redraft my description of the invention (embodiment) and add claims, and the subsequent search reports. When you enter the examination stage and start arguing the toss with the examiner costs will rocket.

Some patent attorneys will give you an hours free consultation (in the hope of some subsequent business), so if you get round a few and make the most of your hour, you will be an expert by the end.
 
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