Passage plans

[Allan]

After reading my Blue book, I thought it may be usefull to have a list of passage plans. For instance, when I sail from Cardiff to Watchet, I leave just after high tide, sail to Minehead and wait until around an hour before the gate opens and sail along the coast to Watchet. Maybe we could add them to this forum?
Allan

 

[damo]

Might be useful for the guy in a big mobo who arrived at low water Portishead last summer asking for a lock-in - "I've got a passenger who needs to get to Bristol airport in an hour and a half"
"Well that is about the time of the first lock"
"Can't you open earlier?"
"Yes, but there is no water"
"Could you come out in the work dory and pick him up"
"No, cos I can't operate a lock and a boat at the same time, and anyway it doesn't go very well on mud!"

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[sb99]

Sounds like a great idea. It would also be interesting to hear from mobo owners on their approach / Passage plans as well.

 

[graham]

Its a good idea but would only work for similar boats.

Eg I use the same method as you usually to get to Watchet but larger faster yachts and mobos will leave Cardiff on the flood and arrive Watchet just after HW.

 

[1937rogerdon]

Passage Plan, Barry to Watchet, its so weather related and the size of boat. From Barry we can take the last hour of flood then pick up the ebb as we close the Somerset coast and arrive at Watchet with tide to spare. Of course with a good S Westerly its almost a close reach across.

 

[Allan]

I agree Graham, I should have added that my boat was 22 feet and I tend not to hurry. Maybe we should do it sections. Up to 30 feet sailing, over 30 feet sailing, displacement mobo, planing mobo. I'm no expert on mobos so would leave that to experts. I think the difference between yachts of 20 or 30 feet would not make a big difference to the planning. For instance when I get my next boat of around 30 feet I would imagine leaving a little later or sleeping longer after lunch at Minehead.
Allan

 

[damo]

It's daft to have such prescriptive and specific plans IMO. Charts and pilots give all the necessary info eg you know when you have to arrive at Watchet/Portishead/Bristol etc, and only you know how your boat performs.

Give yourself a margin of tide/time for arrival, and work back to find the departure window.

Dare I say that I think if someone isn't confident of working out their own passage plan then they shouldn't be out unaccompanied. For example, what if someone is heading down to Swansea and their passage plan involves the Nash Passage. They find that wind over tide is making things unpleasant, the tide is ripping along and the weather has socked in. I wouldn't want to go through there for the first time in iffy conditions, but if I can't work out how to go round the outside..... what then?

 

[sb99]

Being in my first year of motor boating I have done few passage plans a couple of which involved Cardiff to Watchet.

I have had no problems with charts and info on gate windows etc. (I by no way claim to be an expert in this area)

The couple of trips I made were successful although the first was a bit more hairy than I or SWMBO would have liked.

So in effect my passage plans have worked for me however I know they may not be the ideal.

As a relative newbie what would be useful to me would be how other mobo owners approach such trips. i.e. I left about an hour before high tide at Cardiff for both trips to Watchet leaving time for delays. Do other mobos consider this to early/late etc?

The glaring thing I left off each and everyone of my plans last year was a get out plan (By this I mean a safe haven not Mayday, Pan Pan etc) should the proverbial had hit the fan, something I fortunately didn’t need last year but which I will not be ignoring/forgetting in the future. Other people approach to this may prove very useful.

This year I want to get to Portishead and hopefully Bristol. Any pointers on this would be more than welcome.

I’m not saying that I want a step by step passage plan laid on a plate for me but pointers in the right direction from users who have more experience than me in the channel would be really helpful.

The most beneficial knowledge I have picked up to date has been obtained by speaking to the more experienced boat owners and reading the YBW forums. With the introduction of the Bristol Channel forum hopefully I can now obtain more specific help on the area we sail in.

 

[graham]

I guess your cruising speed must be about 20 knots?portishead will take you less than an hour then.

I would lleave cardiff anytime from half tide on the flood up to an hour before HW.You could leave earlier but then the water could be shallow in places if you stray out of the channel.

Presuming leaving 2 hours before HW follow the channel out to the outer wrach buoy then head for the Cardiff North Buoy.

From there head across to the South Mid Grounds buoy leaving it to pport then follow the buoyed channel up to portishead.The buoys may not be easy to see on the day so you need to know which way to head from one to the next.

You have to be aware of ships manouvering towards Portbury and Avonmouth docks. One method is to keep to the North of the channel from the South Mid Grounds until opposite the marina then have a good l;ook for shipping before crossing. You can listen on channel 12 for Avonmouth Signal station and can if you want to report your in tentions to them and ask what ships are around. Listen first that they are not busy talking to ships.

Ships pass very close to Portishead point so try not to encounter a ship close to the point.

If leaving Cardiff close to low water the above route is no good due to Shallow areas around the Cardiff North Bouy area. You would then need to head down to the Cardiff South Buoy and go up outside the Cardiff Spit and Monkstone Lighthouse.

 

[damo]

"I’m not saying that I want a step by step passage plan laid on a plate for me but pointers in the right direction "

That's fine, and a good idea - I quiz people all the time for planning tips. I was just disagreeing with the prescriptive idea of "Maybe we should do it sections. Up to 30 feet sailing, over 30 feet sailing, displacement mobo, planing mobo. "

I still think that if somebody needs a plan on a plate then they are putting themselves at much greater risk, and perhaps should reconsider putting to sea without some training/learning.

 

[mrbloto]

ithink the first question to ask is have you done any of the rya courses, and the next is carry on asking questions because things change very quickly out there, and its the last place you want to be if the s**t hits the fan!! so when making plans dont forget the weather, theres some big lumps of water with wind over tide

 

[johnchampion]

Gaining help, tips and advice is always beneficial and everyone can always learn something they didn't know before. People in this neck of the woods (or rather water) are generally extremely helpful in this respect. For that other peoples ideas are worthwhile.

Having said that if someone is not competent enough and confident enough to work out their own plan then they should not be going on their own, end of story. To do otherwise is just irresponsible as it inevitably puts someone else at risk if the venture goes tits up.

There are plenty of opportunities for training and if someone can afford a boat then they can afford a bit of training. Who, if they were unable to drive, would buy a car and go out on the streets without training and supervision? (Anyone prepared to own up to that please stay away from my boat!)

It's easy enough to get experience by crewing with others, by taking more experienced people on your own boat and by sailing/motoring in company with others who do know what they are doing so why even dream of doing otherwise? If you go with others you can still work out a passage plan and see if would actually work without risk even if you don't follow it.

We all need to start somewhere and there is no better way to learn something than to get on with it and do it but the trick is to do it safely.

If incapable of a simple passage plan what chance would someone have when they need to take action under the collision regs, use navigation electronic or otherwise and call on basic seamanship when the going gets a bit more interesting?

 

[Csail]

I learnt to sail years ago in the chop here all on my own and gradually went to bigger boats. Looking back i have been lucky but learnt loads. I would either do the courses and/or go in company for the first few sail aways.
Don't get caught out there.....it is nasty.

 

[chrishelen]

Get out there with someone who knows what he is doing and knows the area well is the only way to learn,in my expieriance,wind over tide is no fun in a small yacht going nowhere.

 

[sb99]

Thanks all for that, like I said earlier I have prepared and followed a couple of passage plans but it’s always nice to have confirmation that the approach is correct and to receive any additional pointers that the more experienced have picked up. I am relatively happy and confident that the plans I produce for the area I sail in are adequate.

I agree fully with the other comments that if a full prescriptive plan is required on a plate then they should not be venturing out at this stage. I know of a few boats that have run aground in the past year, purely down to poor planning and lack of knowledge.

The training I have had to date is level 2 power boating and VHF.
I have invested in some interactive training cd’s which I am still working through which lead onto the day skipper course. I don’t think I will do the Day Skipper level yet.

 

[graham]

I have time off at odd times mostly during the week if you want me to come along for the ride up to Bristol or wherever some time let me know.

I think that you are allready doing the right things.Everyone thesedays tends to say you need to do courses but if you ask THEM how they learned usually its by doing short passages in settled weather ,talking to other people,sailing/boating with others and gradually gaining experience/confidence.

Nothing wrong with RYA courses in fact I would strongly recommend anyone to do some but real experience is only gained by getting out there and doing it.

 

[damo]

"The training I have had to date is level 2 power boating and VHF"

And that is probably a lot more than many other skippers /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Although the value of a boat has little to do with the argument, I have always been amazed that someone would buy a £200K mobo and head out into the Channel with little idea about boat handling, no passage plan or pilotage notes, and only a vague idea of colregs. For a tiny percentage of that cost they could have a day one-on-one with an instructor.

And as for sail boats with engine problems that get blown ashore at the top of a big spring tide when they had perfect conditions to sail back......(don't get me started /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

 

[sb99]

Thanks for the offer of assistance, much appreciated. Bristol is one trip I don’t currently feel up to tackling myself. A lot more info and planning required. I suspect that will be one trip where I cruise in company.

My next venture will probably be to portisehead, so Damo I’ll be in touch

Like you say you learn a lot once you start going out on your own on short passages, especially interpreting the weather forecasts and sea states.

 

[Sneds]

I think if you've made it to Watchet you would "cruise" through the day skipper theory and posibly the practical course. Maybe a combination of the two?
I did Day skipper at night school many moons ago but never actually sat the exam. I am very keen to do it again!
Please take up the over of "assisted" passage up to Portishead with Graham, it is well worth the trip on up into Bristol aswell.
I think it was Lizzy D who posted a great account of a trip "up the river" on this forum back in its early days, well worth seeking out and reading as it was very informative.
The pilotage up to Portishead is graetly assisted by the bouys, I often write down their names and bearings and distance (time) from eachother and then just follow my back of fag packet directions!
Of course, very often, you can see the detination when you set out, but don't forget, that can often change in minutes.
Good luck and look me up if you come over!
Sorry if I'm rambling on a bit, but SWMBO and me have given up smoking today and I need something to do with my hands!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Allan]

I agree with both you and Damo. I think if someone needs to look on here for a passage plan it is asking for trouble! I think the idea of doing a plan, then checking to see you haven't made an error would be good and could increase the safety of the channel.
Allan