Passage Plan Advice please

Mavis

Mavis

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Subject to the weather we (two up in a Sadler 26) are planning our first channel crossing and have decided to visit St. Peter Port Guernsey, to arrive on Friday 19th June (neap tides) . I have made a passage plan and your experienced advice would be heplful.

We would depart from our home harbour of Looe (West of Plymouth) and arrive at Guernsey around the south of the island at Saint Martins Point at idealy about half flood tide.

Looe to St. Peters Port = 97 nautical miles - say 100

100 Nm @ say 4kts = 25hrs

HW St.Peters Port 19th June = 16:10hrs

Depart Looe on 18th June to be at St Martins Point at half flood say 1200 hrs

Hit West Bound Shipping Lane (50miles from Looe) at approx midnight

Is it a good idea to cross the shipping channels in the dark or should I postpone leaving for a few hours and risk rounding St Martins Point later, poss on the new flood tide.

Thanks.
 
Personally I think it easier to cross the traffic lanes at night. The lights on the ships make it very clear which way they are moving and the masthead lights are often visible when the main structure of the ship is still hull down.
 
For a first channel crossing, St Peter Port is not the easiest destination. I would consider aiming for Braye, which is easy to access at any state of tide, then you can make a well planned passge to St Peter Port as a day sail, not dealing with those tidal streams while tired after a long crossing. Its very easy to get the timing wrong either way!
May be different as you are coming from the West, I might look at Treguier as a first port of call?
It's easier from the Solent, we can cut our teeth on 12hr passages to Cherbourg.
Just my thoughts.
 
for my first channel crossing I'd be looking to cross further east from maybe salcombe or dartmouth and cut the distance down to about 60 miles so 15 hours at sea @ 4 knots. you do need to get your timing right down the little russel on arrival !
 
To add to other's thoughts, at least from the West country you miss the really strong Channel tides which we get coming from the central UK coast. In fact you always have the option once close to choose whether to go via the north of the island and down the Little Russell or via the south and up it to get to St Peter Port. The key is to use one with tide in your favour and arriving at slack water isn't essential.

Not sure I would agree with the Alderney option as that would take you close to the Casquets TSS maybe from your 'start point' (ooh /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif). The idea of making a departure from say Salcombe however to shorten the first crossing is good, we have done that trip several times (once in a Centaur) and it is very easy.

I would echo too that crossing the lanes is easy at night as IMO you can tell the ships headings more easily from their lights than from a hazy visual on first contact. Big ship mast lights show up well over the normal horizon on a clear night and really help to tell when you cross clear ahead.
 
I agree about alderney for first land fall... quite difficult to miss the small island and get dragged with the tide to the wrong place on a first channel crossing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Channel islands tidal streams are quite fierce and double handed after a long sail can be daunting. I have gone down the Little Russel so fast that marker buoys were hidden by their bow waves until I was right on top of them.

Make sure your passage plan for the final approach is quite detailed and I have a whiteboard in the cockpit with a sketch of the approaches, with the buoyage details marked on it. My last trip I even had the tidal flow marked on it.
 
Be flexible, wait for the right wind and visibility. Condition your sea legs with a good run up the coast to Salcombe, then depart tanked up with sleep, fuel, food, water and gps batteries.

Before you depart work out optimal arrival windows for ports on the northern bump of Brittany, Alderney and Cherbourg, then head where the weather wants you to go.

Both day and night the shipping lanes bring their own terrors on a first time crossing so plan around arriving in port and not to get through the shipping lanes.
 
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Make sure your passage plan for the final approach is quite detailed and I have a whiteboard in the cockpit with a sketch of the approaches, with the buoyage details marked on it. My last trip I even had the tidal flow marked on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been known to print stuff and laminate it for a complicated passage .... some is only useable once, but well worth the effort and small expense.

With a chartplotter it's relatively easy to see where you are, even if you cant see the buoys, and easier to set the heading to cope with the tide rather than doing it by keeping two fixed things in line, (cant remember the term for it???) - a transit!!.

Richard
 
I am with Robin on this.
It is very difficult to (can't) go against the current in the Little Russel, so pick which way to go when you are near.
From the South there are less obstructions to negotiate, and the current will be North.
From the North more obstructions and the current splits East going across the North of Guernsey and also South down the West side and down the Little Russel.
Either way, approaching from the West you need to be far enough North or South not to be set up / down the West side of the island, unless of course your timing is such that you can go down the West side and catch the turn to take you up the Little Russel (or vice-versa). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
24 hours is a long time for your first crossing, I would go up to Start Point and anchor just round the corner for the night, Make an early start the next day and cross in daylight, round the North of the island and if weather and tides are ok down via the Doyle passage ( saves an hour)
 
[ QUOTE ]
For a first channel crossing, St Peter Port is not the easiest destination. I would consider aiming for Braye, which is easy to access at any state of tide, then you can make a well planned passge to St Peter Port as a day sail, not dealing with those tidal streams while tired after a long crossing. Its very easy to get the timing wrong either way!
May be different as you are coming from the West, I might look at Treguier as a first port of call?
It's easier from the Solent, we can cut our teeth on 12hr passages to Cherbourg.
Just my thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Problem here is that if your late and its dark Braye can be a bit scary. We did it the first time up from the south, dark and a bit windy. Not nice but safe. It was going fine till one of the leading lights started their engine and drove home /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
"It was going fine till one of the leading lights started their engine and drove home"

Bit like the flashing green light turning into a fish and chip shop as you get closer /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Its a neap tide on the 19th 2.8m to 7.5m so a range of only 4.7m.

If you approach St Martins point from the south going to St Peter Port you wont get more than a Knot or two.

St Peter Port is open to the outer pontoons 24/7.
 
OK I accept my suggestion of Alderney was a bit 'Solent Centric' but it is easy to enter from the North, you will obviously need to account for some E-W tide. Personally I tend to try and arrive in daylight if i have not been to a port before. Another point is to have two or more possible destinations, I'm not going to beat to Cherbourg if I can easily lay Braye in one tack or vice versa.
As I tend to sail rather than motor, it is hard to predict vmg accurately, so its good to pick ports that can be entered at any state of tide.
I also often try to do a short passage before crossing the channel, even if its only Portsmouth to Yarmouth, as I find rushing to get everything ready a bit stressful, suits me better to spend the first day getting everything together.
I have never been to St Peter Port from the West, so defer to those that have. Still sounds a bit hectic tidally though!
By the way, a useful little place is Port Blanc, near Treguier, its a good jumping off point as you don't have to motor 2 hrs down a river to get going. No facilities apart from bread and beer, but cheap moorings, and a nice place.
I tend to put copies of relevant data into punched A4 see thru pockets and tape up the tops. I will have the port plans from last years almanac, tidal streams, a list of tide times, times of weather forecasts.
 
Alderney is indeed easy to enter from the north but from the west it has a number of minus points.

First the track would need a detour to avoid crossing the Casquets TSS, something you don't get coming from the Solent. Secondly that track puts the tides more on the nose or tail than to Guernsey when they are more across. Thirdly the tides off Alderney are not east/west but NE/SW and arriving at the wrong time it is easy to get sucked into the Alderney Race or The Swinge. Lastly Alderney is not an all weather port and in a NE wind it is distinctly unpleasant!

Port Blanc is a delightful place too but not in a NW wind and also for a first X-Channel finding the entrance first time would be stressful especially with the strong cross tides over the approach to the very narrow entrance. Once visited however it is on neaps a bit like Poole harbour inside and you can explore for miles with the dinghy or like we did one year way back with a sailboard.

Like you we have local info chartlets etc from old almanacs or printed off from C-Map and laminated into cockpit crib sheets, even though we have a cockpit plotter.

Anyway, going back to the OP's trip from the west country to St Peter Port, the tidal streams for this really are minimal by comparison both to the central Channel ones or to those off the North Brittany coast. With the right weather window I wouldn't really consider any alternative port except in extremis one back where he started on the UK side. The only real tide flow on the trip is off Guernsey itself and the only proviso is to go with the flow if you can. We have bucked the tide off the south of Guernsey when we had no real choice, when coming from say L'Aberwrac'h or out of Perrros locked marina for example, and it is possible but very slow and probably really slow in a 26ft boat. Coming from the west they will have the option of choosing the north or south routes to suit when they arrive. The north route and Little Russel is no real problem in good visibility and with a cockpit crib sheet or better still a plotter!
 
Fair comment, but depending on my objectives, I would still consider a different first destination if the wind was SE, depending on your boat it could be a long beat shorthanded. I tend towards the more flexible passage plan... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Me too, unless we are really wanting to get to a specific place, like for example if headed off on our annual cruise to Southern Brittany when we would bite the bullet and go regardless rather than say switch to Ireland as an alternative. No offence to the Irish but I prefer the temperature and the wines in Brittany. I'm a big fan otherwise of not sailing upwind over long distances unless we have to, and we have a boat that eats the miles upwind very fast, but then it eats up the miles even better with a free wind!
 
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