Part 1 or Part 3 register for world cruising?

[westward]

I am about to register my boat in the UK for the first time.
I intend to use the boat for for cruising not limited to the UK and Europe.
Other UK cruisers who I have met advise the Part 1 register but this would be awkward as I can't bring the boat to the UK for measurement.
Does anyone have experience world cruising with Part 3 registration? Have you experienced any difficulties?
Alternatively, does anyone have experience getting a boat measured for UK registration in Europe?

 

[Tranona]

MCA will provide you with a list of surveyors for measurement in Europe. While Part 3 is recognised as evidence of flag state, it is not intended for the type of use you envisage. It is for UK based boats that make visits outside territorial waters. It is also limited to UK based individuals which by definition you won't be if you go world cruising. Bite the bullet and go Part 1.

 

[Minerva]

That's interesting - so if one was buying a second hand boat for world girdling (This past week of meetings is driving me near the edge!) should I be looking predominantly for boats on the part 1 register?

How easy is it to get a second/third/fourth hand boat onto the part 1 register for the first time?

 

[jordanbasset]

Part 3 will be fine, just need to show UK residency to get it

 

[dunedin]

MCA will provide you with a list of surveyors for measurement in Europe. While Part 3 is recognised as evidence of flag state, it is not intended for the type of use you envisage. It is for UK based boats that make visits outside territorial waters. It is also limited to UK based individuals which by definition you won't be if you go world cruising. Bite the bullet and go Part 1.

So what problems exactly would there be sailing the world under SSR, and what evidence is there to support this?

As far as I can see most UK sailing yachts are no longer bothering with Part 1 and going SSR instead, with few reported problems. In some places it helps to paint a port name on the stern, as some places expect this - eg add a little “of Greenock“ (or wherever you prefer) under the boat name, and if need a Port Name on any form use that rather than trying to explain that SSR a doesn’t use port names.

 

[Tranona]

So what problems exactly would there be sailing the world under SSR, and what evidence is there to support this?

There seems to be no difficulty in recognition - the difficulty is getting it in the first place if you are not resident/established, and perhaps more importantly renewing it after 5 years if you are no longer established (according to the SSR rules) in the UK. There have been many reports on forums of people unable to renew when off cruising. The SSR rules have been tightened and more rigorously enforced in recent years, hence the advice to register on Part 1 if you intend to go world cruising.

The SSR has been abused in so many ways over the years it is hardly surprising that MCA are now operating it in the way that it was originally intended.

 

[jwilson]

SSR is fine for anywhere. Part I used to give you a A4 certificate and SSR a tiny laminated card, but new SSR registrations are now also A4, and look very similar as far as any Paraguyan or Tahitian port official would know. Adding a port name is also an option as some countries do sort of expect this.

You do need a permanent UK address for SSR.

 

[Irish Rover]

Like most others I can't see what difficulties there would be with SSR as long as you have a UK address and a UK bank account. If OP goes the Part 1 route I can't imagine him have any difficulty finding an authorised surveyor to do the tonnage measurement. I've had them done in both Greece and Turkey and had no difficulty finding an authorised surveyor.

 

[Tranona]

Like most others I can't see what difficulties there would be with SSR as long as you have a UK address and a UK bank account. If OP goes the Part 1 route I can't imagine him have any difficulty finding an authorised surveyor to do the tonnage measurement. I've had them done in both Greece and Turkey and had no difficulty finding an authorised surveyor.

But that is not the requirement for Part 3. Just having a bank account and an address is not sufficient to meet the "established in the UK" requirement. You need to show that you are actually in the UK for more than 180 days a year. As I said, initial registration may be possible if the OP can show that, but 5 years later when he tries to renew it from, say the Caribbean it may not be possible.

As you say there is normally no difficulty in getting the tonnage survey done (and the same surveyor might be able to do the purchase survey) and in the whole scheme of things the cost of registration on Part 1 is is tiny in relation to buying and preparing a boat for world cruising.

 

[jdc]

The criterion for SSR is that one be 'Ordinarily Resident'. This is a term defined only in Common Law and not by statute. Statements - often repeated on HMRC or RYA websites - about '183 days in the UK in a year' are just some examples of what would qualify, but by no means a definitive list. A few years ago I wrote to the MCA challenging their website's statements in this regard, and received back a confirmation that, while their 183 days stuff had been put there in an attempt to be helpful, it was in fact wrong for the reasons I gave. The advice was amended to each case being considered on its merits.

So, if for instance you have always lived in the UK but have departed on a world voyage with the intent eventually to return (doesn't matter if it's taking longer that 5 years and you need to renew the SSR) you are still ordinarily resident - you've not definitively moved abroad to settle elsewhere. It's NOT the same as resident for tax purposes. It may be the same as qualifying for NHS treatment but that has become unhelpfully politicised so is probably subject to arbitrary application.

My advice to the OP is to go for the SSR, provided he's a genuine UK resident. The MCA have no axe to grind or desire to limit its application.

Addendum: This is probably the nearest relevant case law for us, even 'tho it's about welfare payments not renewing an SSR!
Absences for travel (TC)
TC v Secretary of State for Work and Pensions [2017] UKUT 222 (AAC)
This case concerns eligibility for a welfare benefit and the period under consideration is three months, not three years. However, some useful points are made. The appellant had travelled for a year as a tourist until mid-2013 but he had returned to the UK for four months when his father fell ill. He then travelled abroad again as a tourist from November 2013 until February 2015. The government department considered that 15 months' absence was not temporary. However, the judge held that the absence was temporary.
"The appellant had lived all his life in the United Kingdom and had been educated here to degree level. He lived in his mother’s home. His bank account was here. He had been registered with the same GP since 2007. His travels were just that: an extended holiday which was expected to come to an end when he would return to the United Kingdom."
"Duration is relevant but not determinative. The break in the earlier trip indicates that interests of family were given priority over holidaying. The appellant was never more than a traveller or tourist in the countries he visited." (My highlight)

 

[Irish Rover]

But that is not the requirement for Part 3. Just having a bank account and an address is not sufficient to meet the "established in the UK" requirement. You need to show that you are actually in the UK for more than 180 days a year. As I said, initial registration may be possible if the OP can show that, but 5 years later when he tries to renew it from, say the Caribbean it may not be possible.

I'm sure the saints among us will heed your advice but for the rest of us mortal sinners I commend the excellent post by @jdc.

 

[BobnLesley]

Ours was Part-1, but as several have already said, the Part-3 is fine anywhere in the world, we never heard of anyone having a problem becuase of one rather than the other. My one bit of advice with regard to registration documents (Part 1 or 3) is to get yourself at least one good/laminated copy made up before you go, Our departure from the Cape Verdes was delayed a couple of days whilst their Customs guys found our mis-filed registration document; we subsequently got a 'spare' made up in Suriname and nobody ever saw our original again and the copy we used instead was never questioned anywhere.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I thought part 1 was also useful for providing proof of your title to the boat and that it wasn’t mortgaged which might be worth the extra hassle

 

[robmcg]

I thought part 1 was also useful for providing proof of your title to the boat and that it wasn’t mortgaged which might be worth the extra hassle

That was my understanding too. The vessel has to be free of all financial liabilities and liens to qualify, including any Vat that was due.

 

[jdc]

Ours was Part-1, but as several have already said, the Part-3 is fine anywhere in the world, we never heard of anyone having a problem becuase of one rather than the other. My one bit of advice with regard to registration documents (Part 1 or 3) is to get yourself at least one good/laminated copy made up before you go, Our departure from the Cape Verdes was delayed a couple of days whilst their Customs guys found our mis-filed registration document; we subsequently got a 'spare' made up in Suriname and nobody ever saw our original again and the copy we used instead was never questioned anywhere.

You went to Suriname! I thought it was just us (seriously, if there are 10 yachts at any one time in the country it's something of a record). I wrote the pilot guide for the CA BlueWater on the river Paramaribo/Suriname - did you go to Waterland?

To keep this relevant the OP, I advocate writing 'Port of Registration: Falmouth' (or wherever) on any photocopy as it ticks the box in may countries' forms.

 

[KompetentKrew]

That's interesting - so if one was buying a second hand boat for world girdling (This past week of meetings is driving me near the edge!) should I be looking predominantly for boats on the part 1 register?

How easy is it to get a second/third/fourth hand boat onto the part 1 register for the first time?

It's really not hard to get a boat on Part 1.

Check the .gov site for the requirements regarding bills of sale, but I did the whole thing in a matter of weeks - sending documents off, getting the tonnage survey and receiving approval.

 

[Ningaloo]

SSR is fine for anywhere. Part I used to give you a A4 certificate and SSR a tiny laminated card, but new SSR registrations are now also A4, and look very similar as far as any Paraguyan or Tahitian port official would know. Adding a port name is also an option as some countries do sort of expect this.

You do need a permanent UK address for SSR.

SSR is just a pdf that you print at home! No more laminated cards.
I find there is a stack if information that many EU marinas require and expect to be on the registration document in addition to a home port.
Beam, draft, displacement, owners contact details, engine type and power and probably more.
I resorted to printing this on a separate sheet that I have taped onto the (home laminated) SSR as I got tired of the questions.
Having said that, the typical procedure for checking into Spanish marinas is that you are asked for the ships registration, insurance and passports which are photocopied. You are then given a form that requires all this information to be hand written again (sometimes two forms, one for marina and one for some other official purpose), which is then typed into a computer system while the check-in queue grows ever longer. It has taken me over 30 minutes to get checked in, not including the wait to get to the front of the queue.

 

[westward]

Thanks for all the replies.
I'm still not sure if anyone who replied has actually cruised far afield with Part 3. There seemed to be a lot of "we had Part 1 but Part 3 would be fine".
So my plan is:
See how difficult and expensive it would be to get Part 1 and if it is bearable do that because in spite of all the positive advice about Part 3 it still sounds the better option.
If it all looks like being too much of a hassle and grief to get Part 1, get Part 3.
I may end up opting for Part 3 anyway. I am very attached to the name of my boat and I would hate to have to change it. It will be enough of a wrench scraping off my home port.

 

[westward]

SSR is fine for anywhere. Part I used to give you a A4 certificate and SSR a tiny laminated card, but new SSR registrations are now also A4, and look very similar as far as any Paraguyan or Tahitian port official would know. Adding a port name is also an option as some countries do sort of expect this.

You do need a permanent UK address for SSR.

Thanks for your reply. Do you have experience using Part 3 documentation in Paraguay or Tahiti? I have not cleared in in Paraguay but I have cleared in in Brazil and it is a long and nerve wracking process. You do not want to have any doubts about the quality of your documentation.

 

[westward]

Like most others I can't see what difficulties there would be with SSR as long as you have a UK address and a UK bank account. If OP goes the Part 1 route I can't imagine him have any difficulty finding an authorised surveyor to do the tonnage measurement. I've had them done in both Greece and Turkey and had no difficulty finding an authorised surveyor.

Thanks for your reply. Where would you suggest going for information about finding a surveyor? The boat is currently in Sardinia.