alant
Well-Known Member
\"para-anchor\"
Anyone used one in anger?
Anyone used one in anger?
"para-anchor"
- Thread starter alant
- Start date
cliff
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
Wouldn't say I was "angry" - maybe a bit pi$$ed off at the time but not angry - Why do you ask?
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
Wouldn't say I was "angry" - maybe a bit pi$$ed off at the time but not angry - Why do you ask?
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sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
EdWingfield
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
I'm intending a 250M North Sea crossing and back 2007. The para anchor will back up the liferaft as lifesaving equipment.
The endorsements on http://www.paraanchors.com.au/ are quite persuasive. But more than lifesaving, the PA has the practical use of increasing comfort (allowing sleep) whilst hove to.
I want one!
I'm intending a 250M North Sea crossing and back 2007. The para anchor will back up the liferaft as lifesaving equipment.
The endorsements on http://www.paraanchors.com.au/ are quite persuasive. But more than lifesaving, the PA has the practical use of increasing comfort (allowing sleep) whilst hove to.
I want one!
webcraft
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
Consider a series drogue instead - easier to deploy and recover and usually less strain on the boat.
I am a bit surprised you feel you need one for such a short passage - it is usually possible to get a reasonably accurate 3-day forecast for the area, and if it is looking iffy then don't go.
- Nick
Consider a series drogue instead - easier to deploy and recover and usually less strain on the boat.
I am a bit surprised you feel you need one for such a short passage - it is usually possible to get a reasonably accurate 3-day forecast for the area, and if it is looking iffy then don't go.
- Nick
tcm
...
Re: \"para-anchor\"
Richard er er oh wassiname, catamaran desgner tried to off Nicaragua, but it yawed too much and drogues preferred by many. Us coastguards don't recomend apparently...
Richard er er oh wassiname, catamaran desgner tried to off Nicaragua, but it yawed too much and drogues preferred by many. Us coastguards don't recomend apparently...
Talbot
Well-Known Member
bumblefish
Well-Known Member
Talbot
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
That will teach me to check my post!
That will teach me to check my post!
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
I wish there was a definitive answer to this one; different people report different experiences. As the owner of a lightweight cruising cat I really need a solution to severe offshore weather if, as I hope, I undertake some open ocean passages in her, and I don't know what it is.
I don't think Bella Donna would survive the snatch loadings of a para-anchor, even if I backed up the cleats with massive plates - the bows would pull off! (Only half joking). I can't put a bridle round the mast because it's deck stepped and I'm not sure the coachroof winches are strong enough either. At least I would not have to worry about sitting back on my rudders as I can lift them. Deploying and recovering a para-anchor has always seemed to me to be a difficult and dangerous job which would probably stop me from doing it until it was too late.
So that brings me to the series drogues which are undoubtedly the best (and most expensive) of the drogue-type devices. In 'normal' storms trailing one of these is a perfect answer but in real survival conditions I think I would want to be tethered by the bow and I don't think the series drogue would work in this way - unless anyone knows different.
All YM's own trials have been inconclusive and reports from others have been contradictory.
I wish there was a definitive answer to this one; different people report different experiences. As the owner of a lightweight cruising cat I really need a solution to severe offshore weather if, as I hope, I undertake some open ocean passages in her, and I don't know what it is.
I don't think Bella Donna would survive the snatch loadings of a para-anchor, even if I backed up the cleats with massive plates - the bows would pull off! (Only half joking). I can't put a bridle round the mast because it's deck stepped and I'm not sure the coachroof winches are strong enough either. At least I would not have to worry about sitting back on my rudders as I can lift them. Deploying and recovering a para-anchor has always seemed to me to be a difficult and dangerous job which would probably stop me from doing it until it was too late.
So that brings me to the series drogues which are undoubtedly the best (and most expensive) of the drogue-type devices. In 'normal' storms trailing one of these is a perfect answer but in real survival conditions I think I would want to be tethered by the bow and I don't think the series drogue would work in this way - unless anyone knows different.
All YM's own trials have been inconclusive and reports from others have been contradictory.
webcraft
Well-Known Member
Re: series drogue
James,
As I type this Kathy is sitting in the cockpit of Fairwinds here in Madeira attaching cones to our series drogue.
It is most certainly not an expenasive device if you make it yourself. I got 110m of doublebraid nylon on Ebay for £100 and the 90 cones we calculated would be required for our weight of vessel came from Australia for just £90. Under £200 for something that could save our boat and our lives.
The drag device database and other sources seem to indicate that this is better for most vessels as an ultimate survival tool . . . less stress on the vessel than when held by the bows.
I sincerely hope that we never have to use it, and that I never get to report on its effectiveness here. This is the problem . . . I have yet to read a personal account on here of anyone who has lain to a series drogue.
Don't see why it would be less effective for cats - Richard Woods deployed a drogue from one quarter, recommendation is to deploy it from a bridle 2.5x the beam at the attachment point.
-Nick
James,
As I type this Kathy is sitting in the cockpit of Fairwinds here in Madeira attaching cones to our series drogue.
It is most certainly not an expenasive device if you make it yourself. I got 110m of doublebraid nylon on Ebay for £100 and the 90 cones we calculated would be required for our weight of vessel came from Australia for just £90. Under £200 for something that could save our boat and our lives.
The drag device database and other sources seem to indicate that this is better for most vessels as an ultimate survival tool . . . less stress on the vessel than when held by the bows.
I sincerely hope that we never have to use it, and that I never get to report on its effectiveness here. This is the problem . . . I have yet to read a personal account on here of anyone who has lain to a series drogue.
Don't see why it would be less effective for cats - Richard Woods deployed a drogue from one quarter, recommendation is to deploy it from a bridle 2.5x the beam at the attachment point.
-Nick
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
The process of deploying and recovering a para anchor need not be as difficult as people imagine.
For deploying I suggest following the method of an American cat I met who had secured the bridle to the bows and led it back outside all secured to the stanchion bases with cable ties. In the event of needing to deploy it, simply connect the rode to the free end of the bridle and chuck the whole shooting match over the side. A properly packed anchor will deploy itself.
If the link between the chute and the rode is a length of heavy stainless chain the chute will sink when the strain is off the rode leaving it hanging vertically from the recovery buoy. You can then motor up to the buoy and pick up the collapsed chute. The only tricky bit is being sure not to get the boat-end of the warp/bridle round the prop.
The process of deploying and recovering a para anchor need not be as difficult as people imagine.
For deploying I suggest following the method of an American cat I met who had secured the bridle to the bows and led it back outside all secured to the stanchion bases with cable ties. In the event of needing to deploy it, simply connect the rode to the free end of the bridle and chuck the whole shooting match over the side. A properly packed anchor will deploy itself.
If the link between the chute and the rode is a length of heavy stainless chain the chute will sink when the strain is off the rode leaving it hanging vertically from the recovery buoy. You can then motor up to the buoy and pick up the collapsed chute. The only tricky bit is being sure not to get the boat-end of the warp/bridle round the prop.
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
Noel Dilley has. I had the pleasure of listening to one of his lectures.
He got stuck in the Gulf Stream in a bit of blow and had heavy wind over tide and sat it out quite happily until the chaff on the lines caused the drogue to break away.
Then things got interesting.
If you are considering fitting one you might like to consider fitting chain plates to the stern to attach the drogue to. These take the high loads that can occur in survival conditions
Noel Dilley has. I had the pleasure of listening to one of his lectures.
He got stuck in the Gulf Stream in a bit of blow and had heavy wind over tide and sat it out quite happily until the chaff on the lines caused the drogue to break away.
Then things got interesting.
If you are considering fitting one you might like to consider fitting chain plates to the stern to attach the drogue to. These take the high loads that can occur in survival conditions
tcm
...
snatch loads
i have a para anchor and have experimented with it tho not used it "in anger".
Theproblm is not snatch loads - the long, long octoopaitt rode of many times the boat length should mean thesre are smoothed.
The problem i found (in a test at 15-20 knot wind) was that the boat yawed through over 130 degrees, so occassionally sitting almost side on the wind . Richard woods found the same when he deployd his "for real". My test was with a 70 foot planing boat, woods on a cat. Perhaps para anchors need a keel or drogue or a scrap of sail to hold them pointing up wind?
i have a para anchor and have experimented with it tho not used it "in anger".
Theproblm is not snatch loads - the long, long octoopaitt rode of many times the boat length should mean thesre are smoothed.
The problem i found (in a test at 15-20 knot wind) was that the boat yawed through over 130 degrees, so occassionally sitting almost side on the wind . Richard woods found the same when he deployd his "for real". My test was with a 70 foot planing boat, woods on a cat. Perhaps para anchors need a keel or drogue or a scrap of sail to hold them pointing up wind?
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Re: snatch loads
I agree judging by how Rival Spirit veers around at anchor I'd guess that it would do the same with an drogue deployed from the bow. Conversely, the boat seems to be very happy when backing into the wind (R38s have a high prow and low stern the windage is mostly at the front), the higher the wind the better she backs true. Taking these two things together led me to go for a series drogue rather than a para.
I agree judging by how Rival Spirit veers around at anchor I'd guess that it would do the same with an drogue deployed from the bow. Conversely, the boat seems to be very happy when backing into the wind (R38s have a high prow and low stern the windage is mostly at the front), the higher the wind the better she backs true. Taking these two things together led me to go for a series drogue rather than a para.
Sea Devil
Well-Known Member
Re: snatch loads
As previously posted the Para is very easy to deploy and can be done so from the safety of the cockpit - assuming (as I have done 3 times) you have already connected it up by warp to the bows onto the anchor and chain as described above.
The yawing about can be reduced by using a bridle - taking a line off the chain and leading it to one side of the bows or the other so she settles down.
Personally I would never want to present the stern of any boat to dirty great breaking waves. A recipe for disaster I would have thought. The bows however were designed for that as is the cabin top and deck - the breaking wave should run down the boat without impacting on anything at a right-angle to it..
All opinion of course but..
Michael
As previously posted the Para is very easy to deploy and can be done so from the safety of the cockpit - assuming (as I have done 3 times) you have already connected it up by warp to the bows onto the anchor and chain as described above.
The yawing about can be reduced by using a bridle - taking a line off the chain and leading it to one side of the bows or the other so she settles down.
Personally I would never want to present the stern of any boat to dirty great breaking waves. A recipe for disaster I would have thought. The bows however were designed for that as is the cabin top and deck - the breaking wave should run down the boat without impacting on anything at a right-angle to it..
All opinion of course but..
Michael
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Re: snatch loads
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I would never want to present the stern of any boat to dirty great breaking waves. A recipe for disaster I would have thought. The bows however were designed for that as is the cabin top and deck - the breaking wave should run down the boat without impacting on anything at a right-angle to it..
[/ QUOTE ]
You may be right for craft that have wide sterns and companionways. R38s have a narrow stern and bridge deck. All theoretical for me and I hope that it stays that way.
[ QUOTE ]
Personally I would never want to present the stern of any boat to dirty great breaking waves. A recipe for disaster I would have thought. The bows however were designed for that as is the cabin top and deck - the breaking wave should run down the boat without impacting on anything at a right-angle to it..
[/ QUOTE ]
You may be right for craft that have wide sterns and companionways. R38s have a narrow stern and bridge deck. All theoretical for me and I hope that it stays that way.
Adonnante
Well-Known Member
Re: \"para-anchor\"
I am looking at making a series drogue for my Azuli cat. It appears on reading the Drag Device Data Base that a Jordan Series Drogue will slow the boat down to one or two knots which seems to me to be dangerously slow. If the number of cones were reduced from the recomended 130 to say 50 would the drogue allow the boat to run at 5 0r 6 knots but stop the high speed surfs? Any thoughts?
Cheers Peter
I am looking at making a series drogue for my Azuli cat. It appears on reading the Drag Device Data Base that a Jordan Series Drogue will slow the boat down to one or two knots which seems to me to be dangerously slow. If the number of cones were reduced from the recomended 130 to say 50 would the drogue allow the boat to run at 5 0r 6 knots but stop the high speed surfs? Any thoughts?
Cheers Peter
