warwicksail
Well-Known Member
Im am have my bilge plates sand blasted and then need to repaint, Does anyone know of any articles or best paints to use.
Many thanks Paul
Many thanks Paul
Painting Steel Bilge Keels
- Thread starter warwicksail
- Start date
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Try a search, there has been stacks of correspondence on this subject.
After grit blasting you need to get a seal coat on very quickly, 30 minutes max is normally suggested. West Epoxy is used by many but there are other epoxy primers that have been suggested. Just Google 'epoxy primer' and you will find loads of information. Temperature and humidity are factors in good adhesion and curing rate, so now in UK is far from ideal.
After grit blasting you need to get a seal coat on very quickly, 30 minutes max is normally suggested. West Epoxy is used by many but there are other epoxy primers that have been suggested. Just Google 'epoxy primer' and you will find loads of information. Temperature and humidity are factors in good adhesion and curing rate, so now in UK is far from ideal.
VicS
Well-Known Member
As Vyv Cox says but also before coating ensure the grit blasted surface is free of salt by testing with potassium ferricyanide (potassium hexacyanoferrate III) papers.
International Yachtpaint's "Interprotect" is a two part epoxy primer that may be suitable.
There is probably also a readily available primer from Hempel/Blakes but only available to those prepared to do battle with their website.
International Yachtpaint's "Interprotect" is a two part epoxy primer that may be suitable.
There is probably also a readily available primer from Hempel/Blakes but only available to those prepared to do battle with their website.
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Right, before you put any form of epoxy primer on, and as soon as you get to bare metal,
spray & then brush on a coating of Fertan. It acts like a powdercoat..............only better.
Takes about 24 hours to dry before you can apply any form of paint.
Costs around £6:50 for 250mil but well worth it as it goes a long long long way.
spray & then brush on a coating of Fertan. It acts like a powdercoat..............only better.
Takes about 24 hours to dry before you can apply any form of paint.
Costs around £6:50 for 250mil but well worth it as it goes a long long long way.
Pasarell
Well-Known Member
Rust converters
Oh dear.
Fertan is most definitely not a powder coating and nor is it a good idea if you have blasted the keels.
All rust converters should be avoided if at all possible - and if you're blasting they are completely pointless. If you do have to use a rust converter because you can't blast of grind properly then, once dry they should be given a very thorough brush off with a stiff brush to remove any powdery residue. Rust converters will compromise adhesion of subsequent coats and powder residue will be particularly bad.
Treat rust converters as treatment of last resort when proper surface preparation is just not possible.
Don't know what sort of boat you have but your keels are probably cast iron, not steel. Make sure they are pressure washed with fresh water as thoroughly as possible before the blaster starts to remove as much salt as possible. Any salt left will be forced into the surface pores of the metal and start corrosion again much sooner than you would like.
As others have said get your first coat on as soon as possible but be prepared to spend some time drying the surface first. If the keels are cast iron they probably have a lot of voids and cavities that water will be trapped in and a little time spent drying them out now will make the end result a lot better, even if it does mean a little gingering of the surface while you do so.
Oh dear.
Fertan is most definitely not a powder coating and nor is it a good idea if you have blasted the keels.
All rust converters should be avoided if at all possible - and if you're blasting they are completely pointless. If you do have to use a rust converter because you can't blast of grind properly then, once dry they should be given a very thorough brush off with a stiff brush to remove any powdery residue. Rust converters will compromise adhesion of subsequent coats and powder residue will be particularly bad.
Treat rust converters as treatment of last resort when proper surface preparation is just not possible.
Don't know what sort of boat you have but your keels are probably cast iron, not steel. Make sure they are pressure washed with fresh water as thoroughly as possible before the blaster starts to remove as much salt as possible. Any salt left will be forced into the surface pores of the metal and start corrosion again much sooner than you would like.
As others have said get your first coat on as soon as possible but be prepared to spend some time drying the surface first. If the keels are cast iron they probably have a lot of voids and cavities that water will be trapped in and a little time spent drying them out now will make the end result a lot better, even if it does mean a little gingering of the surface while you do so.
VicS
Well-Known Member
His profile says he has Westerly Warwick ... that certainly has cast iron bilge keels but in his question above he refers to "bilge plates" although in the heading is "steel bilge keels" ??????
Last edited:
gasdave
Well-Known Member
I too am considering having my cast iron keels blasted before relaunch but up here in sunny scotland warm dry weather before April is a rarity. How long is it safe to leave the bare metal before absolutely needing to prime?
Sandyman
Well-Known Member
Oh dear indeed. Didnt say it was actually a powder coat.
The OP might be interested in this :
Fertan rust converter
Made from the highest quality ingredients Fertan Rust Converter (FRC) has for many years provided a tremendously effective way to treat rust in any situation. Safe and easy to use it totally destroys rust and nothing but the rust. FRC goes into almost every situation where steel or iron is used and produces the right results. Our customers are based everywhere from Iceland to Australia and most places in between. Because of this we have a wide range of experience of different applications and are always pleased to talk and provide impartial advice on the problems you are facing.
The purpose of Fertan is to provide you with all the benefits of shot blasting with no surface damage and no material loss. The advantage is that it can be achieved by just unscrewing the top of container and working a brush or spray.
As there is no blasting the process is nuisance free and silent. You are able to observe and be sure that all the rust has been converted before applying opaque paint coats.
Laboratory tests and practical experience have proved this efficiency many hundreds of thousands of times across Europe and the rest of the world. The lab results are linked here laboratory testing and make interesting reading.
For details of how to use Fertan Rust Converter how to use. For the Fertan data sheet data sheet
The technical details of how Fertan works are complex but are detailed in several of the patents and a representative one is available here. As with all our products please contact us to discuss any specific queries and we will either answer them or, if we don't know the answer, we'll talk with our chemists who designed and made it.
Fertan is suitable for treating steel and iron surfaces, even if they have to be left for weeks or months prior to final painting. Rust is removed and prevented from re-forming for up to six months so delays in your painting schedule will not be a disaster. Fertan can be overcoated with oil or water based paints, epoxy, lacquer, wax.......
Fertan is a complex, patented tannic acid, water based non toxic product. It offers exceptional protection against rust despite being environmentally friendly. Isocyanates and high volatiles are not necessary so we don't use them.
Fertan converts loose rust to powder that can be rinsed away leaving a converted stable and inert surface.
Fertan when kept in closed containers and reasonable conditions has an unlimited shelf life.
Application is simple and safe....
Brush off loose rust and remove dirt, oil or silicone products that will prevent Fertan reaching the metal surface.
Apply Fertan by brush, roller or spray and leave for 24 hours, extending this to 48 hours in low temperatures.
The surface can now be rinsed off and overpainted. The overpainting can be left for weeks, months or years depending on the environmental conditions.
Do try Fertan Rust Converter, it should be the end of your search for an effective answer to rust.
The OP might be interested in this :
Fertan rust converter
Made from the highest quality ingredients Fertan Rust Converter (FRC) has for many years provided a tremendously effective way to treat rust in any situation. Safe and easy to use it totally destroys rust and nothing but the rust. FRC goes into almost every situation where steel or iron is used and produces the right results. Our customers are based everywhere from Iceland to Australia and most places in between. Because of this we have a wide range of experience of different applications and are always pleased to talk and provide impartial advice on the problems you are facing.
The purpose of Fertan is to provide you with all the benefits of shot blasting with no surface damage and no material loss. The advantage is that it can be achieved by just unscrewing the top of container and working a brush or spray.
As there is no blasting the process is nuisance free and silent. You are able to observe and be sure that all the rust has been converted before applying opaque paint coats.
Laboratory tests and practical experience have proved this efficiency many hundreds of thousands of times across Europe and the rest of the world. The lab results are linked here laboratory testing and make interesting reading.
For details of how to use Fertan Rust Converter how to use. For the Fertan data sheet data sheet
The technical details of how Fertan works are complex but are detailed in several of the patents and a representative one is available here. As with all our products please contact us to discuss any specific queries and we will either answer them or, if we don't know the answer, we'll talk with our chemists who designed and made it.
Fertan is suitable for treating steel and iron surfaces, even if they have to be left for weeks or months prior to final painting. Rust is removed and prevented from re-forming for up to six months so delays in your painting schedule will not be a disaster. Fertan can be overcoated with oil or water based paints, epoxy, lacquer, wax.......
Fertan is a complex, patented tannic acid, water based non toxic product. It offers exceptional protection against rust despite being environmentally friendly. Isocyanates and high volatiles are not necessary so we don't use them.
Fertan converts loose rust to powder that can be rinsed away leaving a converted stable and inert surface.
Fertan when kept in closed containers and reasonable conditions has an unlimited shelf life.
Application is simple and safe....
Brush off loose rust and remove dirt, oil or silicone products that will prevent Fertan reaching the metal surface.
Apply Fertan by brush, roller or spray and leave for 24 hours, extending this to 48 hours in low temperatures.
The surface can now be rinsed off and overpainted. The overpainting can be left for weeks, months or years depending on the environmental conditions.
Do try Fertan Rust Converter, it should be the end of your search for an effective answer to rust.
Pasarell
Well-Known Member
Time after blasting
There's no simple answer to this I'm afraid. Just coat as soon as you can after blasting, ensuring the metal is dry and dust free. Humidity will affect the speed at which the blast "goes off" so if it is low you can leave overcoating for longer than if it is high. Blasting keels should take less than an hour so withing 30 minutes of the blaster finishing you should be able to get the area cleaned up and start coating which is pretty good.
If he blasts with slurry rather than dry the surface will start to ginger pretty quickly but most modern anticorrosive coatings can handle that. If the surface starts to go black it indicates salt is still present which is far more serious.
There's no simple answer to this I'm afraid. Just coat as soon as you can after blasting, ensuring the metal is dry and dust free. Humidity will affect the speed at which the blast "goes off" so if it is low you can leave overcoating for longer than if it is high. Blasting keels should take less than an hour so withing 30 minutes of the blaster finishing you should be able to get the area cleaned up and start coating which is pretty good.
If he blasts with slurry rather than dry the surface will start to ginger pretty quickly but most modern anticorrosive coatings can handle that. If the surface starts to go black it indicates salt is still present which is far more serious.
Pasarell
Well-Known Member
Rust Converters
Re Sandyman
Thanks for all the info. I'm very familiar with various rust converters - and all their claims.
You actually said it acts like a powder coat - which it certainly does not.
Rust converters have a place but not, as Fertan claim, as an alternative to blasting or other forms of preparation.
If they were as good as blasting all shipping companies, oil rigs and bridges would use them - which they don't.
Rust converters are a very short term solution and their residue needs to be thoroughly removed before any anticorrosive coating is applied. Leave it there and adhesion is compromised leading to premature breakdown and need to retreat.
For a proper job on ferrous metal there is no substitute for blasting, be it dry, UHP water or slurry etc. If blasting is not possible then needle gun and grinding come well before rust converters in terms of efficiency.
If the only surface prep method possible is something like wire brush or chipping hammer then it is probably worth following up with a rust converter provided all trace of it is removed before applying the permanent coating.
Re Sandyman
Thanks for all the info. I'm very familiar with various rust converters - and all their claims.
You actually said it acts like a powder coat - which it certainly does not.
Rust converters have a place but not, as Fertan claim, as an alternative to blasting or other forms of preparation.
If they were as good as blasting all shipping companies, oil rigs and bridges would use them - which they don't.
Rust converters are a very short term solution and their residue needs to be thoroughly removed before any anticorrosive coating is applied. Leave it there and adhesion is compromised leading to premature breakdown and need to retreat.
For a proper job on ferrous metal there is no substitute for blasting, be it dry, UHP water or slurry etc. If blasting is not possible then needle gun and grinding come well before rust converters in terms of efficiency.
If the only surface prep method possible is something like wire brush or chipping hammer then it is probably worth following up with a rust converter provided all trace of it is removed before applying the permanent coating.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Perfect summary.
rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
IMHO dry grit blasting (not sand /shot) is the only way to go and had another benefit in that it has the effect of increasing the surface area that the epoxy has to grip onto. In fact when I grit blasted my steel yacht I used at least twice the amount of epoxy on the first coat as the following coats.
neilf39
Well-Known Member
I used POR 15 on my lift keel successfully last year. Was in the water 5 months and no sign of any rust at all. Took it back to bare metal first. It seems very tough and stayed on even when I dragged the plate through some shingle.