Padstow RIB tragedy: final report released

[prv]

you shouldnt interfere with the helmsman grabbing the stering and increasing the throttles she was competent and qualifiied in my oppinion this was self inflicted by the husband if you was going along in your 40ft whatever and some one leaned over and threw the wheel over and applied throttle i am sure you would not be impressed

A friend of a friend had someone do that in the car she was driving. I believe people died.

Pete

 

[freddy the frog]

sums it all up in a nut shell

 

[Observer]

i would not consider a cobra rib a proffesional rib unlike ribcraft or redbay which come with jockey seats which is a much more secure way of being seated on a rib with grab handle in front of each seat, however cobra are good recreational ribs well built etc but at the end of the day if you turn on the taps of 250 hp at full throttle and full lock on the stearing without telling the helmsman or not warning the kids to hang on you are going to be in for a surprise. totaly self inflicted by the husband

I nominate that as the outright winner of the prize for crass statement of the year, possibly the century.

If Mr Milligan was still alive, it's almost certain he would agree that his action was 'stupid'. It is, of course, also possible that he, like all of us who are less than perfect, did something on the spur of the moment without thinking about the consequences. I hold my hand up - I'm not perfect in that way. I just keep hoping that I can get through life without a thoughtless mistake having such awful consequences for me and (far worse) for my loved ones

 

[Gentlemanracer]

Tragic doesn't even get close. The background is family bonding / entertainment / fun with a demonstrably sane and responsible approach that because of errors of conflicting judgement turned fatal. I'd guess half the available engine power would have done the job on the day just fine, possibly even make the incident survivable? With increasing power, Fun must yield to Discipline. Want both? Then add experience. Better awareness training, more competent design and more informative manuals, yes of course. My personal take is to add training awareness of potential boat behaviour with rapidly operated throttles & steering. And now, I'd like to see some form of "elk" test, too: something manufacturer's and buyers can readily interpret and act upon. I suspect that not all boats behave thus, any opinions?

 

[Observer]

Tragic doesn't even get close. The background is family bonding / entertainment / fun with a demonstrably sane and responsible approach that because of errors of conflicting judgement turned fatal. I'd guess half the available engine power would have done the job on the day just fine, possibly even make the incident survivable? With increasing power, Fun must yield to Discipline. Want both? Then add experience. Better awareness training, more competent design and more informative manuals, yes of course. My personal take is to add training awareness of potential boat behaviour with rapidly operated throttles & steering. And now, I'd like to see some form of "elk" test, too: something manufacturer's and buyers can readily interpret and act upon. I suspect that not all boats behave thus, any opinions?

It seems to me that the handling of this RIB with the engine power fitted was, in motor car terms, similar to that of a Porsche 911, which I understand are known for having a twitchy rear end if steered aggressively with high power. A financially well-off individual may well purchase a Porsche without ever having the intent or desire to explore its performance limits. Similarly with a high-powered RIB.

Two things that are not completely clear from the report:

- Was Milly travelling at displacement speed or planing speed when the helm and throttle intervention happened?

- Was full throttle application intentional or accidental.

I have a 6m RIB with 90hp (mechanical throttle linkage not FBW). From displacement speed, if I wished to turn tightly, I would certainly apply a 'large' throttle opening to get the stern swinging, backing off almost immediately to half throttle or less once the turn is established. I've never experienced a 'hook'; a too tight turn in my RIB would simply cause prop aeration and loss of acceleration. But I guess that's because my RIB is the equivalent of a Panda not a Porsche.

Also, if already at planing speed, I wouldn't expect to increase throttle to achieve a tighter turn but reduce speed, possibly using bursts of throttle to swing the stern. But again, that may be because I don't have the engine power reserve that was available on Milly. Even so, increasing power to WOT to tighten a turn when already planing seems quite advanced handling that doesn't fit reported experience.

I wonder if the full power application was accidental - what was intended was a burst of power to help make the turn and then back off. But the throttle control was fumbled because he was out of position?

 

[ThreeSummers]

A friend of a friend had someone do that in the car she was driving. I believe people died.

Pete

I was a back seat passenger in a car when front passenger did that to driver at around 110+ km/h. We were lucky it was an open road as we spun off and went backwards through a farm fence…

Tim.

 

[Gentlemanracer]

- Was Milly travelling at displacement speed or planing speed when the helm and throttle intervention happened?

- Was full throttle application intentional or accidental.

I wonder if the full power application was accidental - what was intended was a burst of power to help make the turn and then back off. But the throttle control was fumbled because he was out of position?[/QUOTE]

I'd guess displacement speed (heading home, no chord) intentional steering but accidental WOT. If so, there may be a case for increasing throttle "friction" at wider openings.

 

[rwilson]

Gentleman racer hits on an interesting point re throttle friction. I can speak from experience with the same Yamaha throttles that if you don't have the friction adjuster set quite tight, the throttles are like a hair trigger and combined with motion of the sea makes for bracing, steering and throttle position adjustment very tricky. Interestingly when I was coming back from the Channel Islands to Dartmouth, a couple of heavy landings off the back of a wave pushed the throttles open even more, not ideal to say the least. This hair trigger on a light boat such as a Cobra and 300hp would be bad news.

 

[Observer]

Gentleman racer hits on an interesting point re throttle friction. I can speak from experience with the same Yamaha throttles that if you don't have the friction adjuster set quite tight, the throttles are like a hair trigger and combined with motion of the sea makes for bracing, steering and throttle position adjustment very tricky. Interestingly when I was coming back from the Channel Islands to Dartmouth, a couple of heavy landings off the back of a wave pushed the throttles open even more, not ideal to say the least. This hair trigger on a light boat such as a Cobra and 300hp would be bad news.

Yes - I've had experience of electronic throttles (Volvo Penta) on a 40' sports cruiser. I remember that to maintain fine control in almost all conditions it was essential to apply force at the base of the levers. This accident happened in sheltered water but it is far from difficult to imagine that a single lever FBW throttle could be unintentionally pushed wide open by a hurried hand movement, especially reaching across with the wrong hand (ie left hand across the body to throttle, right hand to wheel).

I'd almost go so far as to say that a FBW throttle is positively contra-indicated on a small sports boat or RIB.

 

[chaldon3]

a very very sad accident. both adults had been on relevant courses and to be fair were using kill cord at a point.
i think its a minority that chose not to use such a safety device, crude but if used effective. all trains have a dead mans handle where it will not move unless driver keeps it
permanently engaged, not practical for a boat. my point being a couple of years back a driver had been found to be over riding this safety system so he did not have to keep it engaged.
i think it is all boat owners duty to attend courses, ie boat handling and safety we have a duty of care to the public and our passengers, but where does training start or even end
what about towing a large heavy boat with your crew in your car.you need a certificate to launch but not to tow at 60mph. joining a club is a brilliant start and most times you can get a discount for training. any way i remember this happening and have read the report in my eyes it was purely an unfortunate accident and my heart goes out to the family.

 

[Tranona]

Yes - I've had experience of electronic throttles (Volvo Penta) on a 40' sports cruiser. I remember that to maintain fine control in almost all conditions it was essential to apply force at the base of the levers. This accident happened in sheltered water but it is far from difficult to imagine that a single lever FBW throttle could be unintentionally pushed wide open by a hurried hand movement, especially reaching across with the wrong hand (ie left hand across the body to throttle, right hand to wheel).

I'd almost go so far as to say that a FBW throttle is positively contra-indicated on a small sports boat or RIB.

The report made the point about how easy it was to operate the throttle. I think the report underplays the action of Mr M in causing the accident. Really difficult to explain without an eye witness account of why he did it. Also difficult to know how one gets experience of the effect of wide open throttle at low speed with lock on - not the kind of thing that an average user would ever experience in just the same way that few drivers would ever experience exploring the limits of a powerful car. The tests run on the boat seem to show that once the boat gets a "hook" there is nothing that can be done to correct it. Use of the kill cord would, however stop the boat from going round, which is what caused the injuries to those in the water.

 

[freddy the frog]

Very sad indeed but both adults had undergone training , but it is for the individual to apply those things being taught by the RYA instructors.
Going off at a slight tangent sailing is no different in certain conditions sailers shoudl be clipped on to avoid being thrown out when heeling i wonder how many apply this practice. I think praise goes to the guy who managed to bring the rib to a standstill avoiding those left in the water while chasing the runaway rib.

 

[l'escargot]

All we can do is try to put in layers of protection to try and prevent tragedies like this occurring - we have levels training to try and reduce the opportunity for operator error and then safety devices such as kill cords to try and mitigate the consequences if those errors still occur. I think this is a chilling example of what happens if just one of those layers is absent for any reason. The more layers there are the safer it becomes.

 

[alant]

I've not read through all comments but did pick up one interesting comment about kill cords not being fitted due to forgetting or being distracted as in the case of this accident. Got me thinking that rather than focus changes on what can be done to replace the kill cord a simple(ish) thing that could be done is to flash up an led/ display / audible alarm or whatever that can be seen and/or heard on turning the ignition with the sole purpose of reminding the user to fit the kill cord. Even simpler would be for outboard manufacturers to have to put a dirty greagn on the front of the engine "HAVE YOU FITTED YOUR KILL CORD?"

Have you fitted the kill cord TO THE DRIVER?

 

[alant]

It seems to me that the handling of this RIB with the engine power fitted was, in motor car terms, similar to that of a Porsche 911, which I understand are known for having a twitchy rear end if steered aggressively with high power. A financially well-off individual may well purchase a Porsche without ever having the intent or desire to explore its performance limits. Similarly with a high-powered RIB.

Two things that are not completely clear from the report:

- Was Milly travelling at displacement speed or planing speed when the helm and throttle intervention happened?

- Was full throttle application intentional or accidental.

I have a 6m RIB with 90hp (mechanical throttle linkage not FBW). From displacement speed, if I wished to turn tightly, I would certainly apply a 'large' throttle opening to get the stern swinging, backing off almost immediately to half throttle or less once the turn is established. I've never experienced a 'hook'; a too tight turn in my RIB would simply cause prop aeration and loss of acceleration. But I guess that's because my RIB is the equivalent of a Panda not a Porsche.

Also, if already at planing speed, I wouldn't expect to increase throttle to achieve a tighter turn but reduce speed, possibly using bursts of throttle to swing the stern. But again, that may be because I don't have the engine power reserve that was available on Milly. Even so, increasing power to WOT to tighten a turn when already planing seems quite advanced handling that doesn't fit reported experience.

I wonder if the full power application was accidental - what was intended was a burst of power to help make the turn and then back off. But the throttle control was fumbled because he was out of position?

In a,RIB with a big engine, it is difficult to make a sharp turn flat out, due to engine torque, even if you have large muscles. You have to drop the throttle, turn wheel & then apply throttle, to manage it.