Outboards,decisions decisions....

[comtech]

Any advice would be appreciated on which type/make of
outboard would suit me best.Primarily to push along an 8ft.
g.r.p. tender but ideally able to be pushed into service
(in extremis) as an auxilliary on a 23 ft cruiser with an inboard diesel.
As 99.9% of use would be on tender ,short shaft seems the way to go,
would this work on cruiser with transom 40 inches to waterline?
Also don't have arms like Popeye,whats the smallest H.P.
i could reasonably expect to move a 23 footer?
Finally 2 or 4 stroke? have just read article in current P.B.O
on small 4 strokes which did'nt seem to like any of them
very much,and reading between the lines seemed to be
suggesting buy a 2 stroke whilst you still can!
Confused and money burning hole in pocket!
please advise.

 

[Talbot]

Tohatsu 3.5 2 stroke will move a 23 ft mobo and is an excellent one for the tender. Light enough for my SWMBO to lift.

 

[Double arvor]

depends on where you use the boat, on coastal or tidal min of
5hp

 

[Hermit]

I have pushed a oldish (heavyish) 25ft boat using a very venerable mariner 2 stroke/2HP on an inflatable lashed alongside. Wouldn't want to do it in much tidal stream though...

 

[graham]

A Tohatsu 3.5 pushes my friends long keel 25 foot yacht at about 4 knots in calm water.

You will need a hingeing bracket on the transom starting will be awkward with a 40 inch transom but as its only for emergency use not really an issue.I have seen a pulley used to turn the starter cord upwards then pulled with an extended cord.

2Strokes are lighter and more able to put up with abuse.4 strokes have more working parts to go wrong but are usually quieter and more fuel economic .

 

[Tisme]

You're right that they have more moving parts but nevertheless I think it's generally agreed that 4 strokes are more reliable.

 

[Lakesailor]

Standard legs are 15" from transom to the water level (or usually the cavitiation plate) so you'd need to mount your bracket fairly low on the transom. I find with a standard shaft that if the bracket pad comes to within about 2" of the water it seems to be OK. The extra 5" of a long shaft may be very useful on your yacht, and not a great problem on the tender.

 

[Kawasaki]

Go for a 2 stroke cos they are not as heavy as 4 strokes. Modern ones ARE reliable. You,l need 5 hp at least cos ,where you are there,s plenty of water moving about I would imagine!

 

[Tisme]

[ QUOTE ]
. Modern ones ARE reliable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I was saying that it's generally recognized that 4 strokes are even more reliable.

 

[paul_williams]

another vote for the tohatsu. pushes my duette 23 against tide in walney channel, and towing my 12' with as well. slow going, but it will do it.

 

[Kawasaki]

I think thats a myth especially related to small 4 strokes. Had a small Honda, about 5 years ago. Boat at that time was on a mooring about 700 yards from the slipway. Nice little rowable tender to get to Her but some states of the tide had to use the outboard to reach Her. Once started the outboard was fine, problem however was the starting technic. Normal outboard starting method, choke , fuel on, tad of throttle pull, pull, pull away we go! Not with the Friggin Honda! Not that there was anything wrong. So why the problem? Different starting technic, I kid you not! Read the Manual. Because of the 4 strocke cycle a "different" method needed. "FUEL ON yes CHOKE ON yes MAKE SURE STARTER "ROPE" IS IN FULL RECOIL yes PULL GRADUALLY AND FIRMLY WITH ONE LONG PULL. OK method accepted and understood, weve got 4 cycles instead of 2 therefore no good to"snatch" at the starter cord to get the bu**er to run. What A PAIN iin the ar*s that little sod was. Thats Why /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

I had a H*nda 5hp 4 stroke.
I have a Yamaha 4hp 4 stoke.
Now a happy bunny.

 

[Guest]

8ft tender normally has a 3 - 4HP limit ... anything more and you are wet !!

A 4HP will push your 23ft boat along as long as weather is ok ...

The problem will be shaft length ... so will have to be set low on the transom.

Basically in the low engine sizes - there are very few manufacturers - but plenty of "badges". Mariner, Tohatsu, Yamaha, Mercury ... even dear old Johnson .... they are all good in the 4HP size.

At 3HP and below - often you have no gears ... so its start and go .... one or two have centrifugal clutches ....

I have a 5.5m weekender out here with a 3.3 Johnson on back end - it does max 5kts in the river .... cruises at 3 .....

So I would suggest a gander around outboard service shops ... a good secondhand 2 stroke is a good deal ... usually with a guarantee, it's lighter than a 4 stroke, and is easily serviced ....... less mechanically to go wrong etc.

I have to admit to not being a fan of 4 strokes - haven't found one yet that I can honestly say I would swap my little Mariner or Johnson for ....

 

[Guest]

4 strokes more reliable ???? How come ?

The length of time that 4 strokes have been on market in the smaller sizes does not indicate in IMHO that they are more reliable than 2 strokes. 2 strokes have been around since year dot and many are still giving service.

You only have to hear that familiar sound of a seagull to know that the most reliable of all is the old oily Seagull - a smelly 2 stroke !!

 

[andy_wilson]

I disagree!

And they need more servicing.

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: I disagree!

2 strokes are noisy bloody things. 2 firing strokes to every one of the 4 stroke.
I have a seagull as well as a 4 stroke and you can't talk for the noise. Even more modern 2 strokes are noisy things and you've all that fannying about with fuel mix.
My 4 stroke starts 2nd or third pull every time. Are you all weak?

 

[Tisme]

Re: 4 strokes more reliable ???? How come ?

I would argue that 4 strokes are inherently more reliable because of better lubrication systems and because the piston and rings are less vulnerable (on a 2 stroke they need open and close the ports rather then sliding up and down a smooth bore)

Personally, for a small outboard I prefer a 2 stroke, because of simplicity, the leaking oil 4T problem, light weight, low initial price. For any other engine I would prefer 4 stroke (noise, fuel economy, pollution (well!) etc etc....and reliability!).


I suspect that this is one of those discussions that could go on forever. I'm not sure how one could conclusively prove it one way or another.

 

[kirielad]

I have a 24' AWB (1.8 ton), with a 2 stroke 9.9 Tohatsu fitted (light enough to lift off and fit in the cockpit locker - try doing that with a 4 stroke), and a 3.5 Tohatsu short shaft (2 stroke) for the tender. The 3.5 also pushes the boat around surprisingly well as a backup.

Its all been said before but 2 strokes are cheaper, lighter and simpler (i.e more reliable - making something more complicated makes it more reliable? Don't think so! - just ask any outboard mechanic). Both excellent bits of kit - no more noisy than equivalent 4 stroke models and fuel wise theres not a lot in it. It will take years to get your money back on fuel savings (cos' the 4 costs a lot more than a 2), unless you motor all season, for the next 5 years!

BTW I don't have any connection to Tohatsu - just a very satisfied customer.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

For the tenders we use a 2.2 mercury which is plenty strong enough. Lightweight and pretty reliable. Mine seems to eat plugs, 2 per year is normal, never worked out why.

With the dinghy rafted I have pulled along my 26ft cat, albeit on the mooring, but it was pulling well against the strops.

As an aux to your sails and inboard I would say 3.5 is too big. You would be sailing if there was wind, no?

As most of it's life is going to be carrying from the car boot, lifting on board, stowing, lifting down to the tender, carrying tender and outboard across beaches etc etc I would personally go small.

It is your 3rd line of defence at the end of the day.

 

[andy_wilson]

Re: I disagree!

Small water cooled 2-strokes are much quieter than small air cooled 4-strokes.

Seagulls are quite correctly now obsolete. They were neither light, quiet, easy to start or reliable. They only ever had two advantages.

One was for mororing in 'storm' conditions where you didn't have to pour oil on the water, the Seagull did it for you.

The second was, when dropped over the side, they were easy to get going again, and ran just as crap after the dunking as before.

As for starting small 4-strokes, you are right it's a piece of 9155, though I am sorry you find you have to pull 2 or 3 times. Give it to your wife or one of the kids, or a beginner, and you might see a different side of this.

Finally, add up all the time squirting a measure of 2-stroke oil into the mix across the season, and see how it compares with doing an oil change and checking the valve clearances on a 4-stroke.