Outboard or Inboard for Westerly 21

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Pilotsailor

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I'd appreciate some words of advice. Yes this old chestnut again!

I bought a Westerly 21 (Westerly used to call it a Warwick) last year for a very keen price reflecting the need to nurse her back to A1 condition. She's a lovely little boat now but I have an engine issue. She's fitted with a Petter Mini 6 which starts reliably and has never let me down, but having spent nearly £300 on a new water pump last year the engine has now developed a fuel leak from the fuel pump. Having spoken to a couple of marine engineers the consensus seems to be - stop spending money on the engine and replace it. The rationale is that its an obsolete engine and spares are silly money. I did budget for this in the purchase price, but my real question is is it really worth spending nearly £3-4k on a new inboard when there are some very good deals around on outboards. Over the winter I fitted an outboard bracket and my little suzuki 2.5 powers her along at 3.5-5 kts when have played in calm conditions.

My biggest concern with going the outboard route is the lifting of the prop out of the water in any sea. She's primarily intended for Solent cruising, but I have always been an 'inboard' man so would be interested to hear of fellow sailor's experiences with outboards - are they a pain? I'm thinking of either the Mariner 9.9 longshaft or going the whole hog with a yanmar 1gm10.

Comments and thoughts appreciated!
 
For a boat designed to take or capable of taking an inboard then my choice would be an inboard very time.

Outboard by comparison is a PITA, its only virtue is that you can take it off and take it home to service/repair it.

loss of the control an inboard gives when manoeuvring under power is one downside,
also
prop lifting from the water

bad access to the controls unless you fit remotes

easily stolen .. I've lost one engine plus two further fuel tanks and fuel

usually very small electrical output for battery charging.

I suspect you may need an extra long shaft (25") outboard on W21 partly to put the prop deep enough and partly to keep the power head within reach.

Ideally you need the "sail" version I have an Evinrude Yachtwin which has several significant differences from the standard model.
It's a long shaft but has an exhaust outlet higher than the standard model so that the prop can be put deeper without increasing the back pressure. It has a special prop with a large blade area ( Mickey mouse ears) and a small pitch to give a high thrust and make it suitable for a displacement speed hull.
Mine also has a battery charging output which the standard model does not.
 
We (or rather FiLaw) started out in a Macwester 22 in the Eastern Solent ... it had a 15hp outboard on the back (overkill!) and was fine in flat water ... any sort of chop and it kept coming out of the water ... also you didn't get the propwash over the rudder benefit - although reversing was easier if you just grabbed the outboard!
We swapped it out for a Volvo MD5a (it had a little internal Jap engine with bust bearings - so took that out first) - different boat - far better behaved under engine ... with the exception of reverse ...
 
another problem with an outboard is its difficult to get petrol where diesel is readily available from most harbours. when I had an outboard i had to walk miles or get a taxi to fetch petrol and some taxi drivers would refuse to carry your petrol back.
 
I changed from A Seawych to a W21 partly because of the 1GM10 engine. We feel much happier with the little inboard thumping away below. The 5hp yamaha had all the usual probs, ie prop lifting in any sort of a chop etc. Looking fo an o/b as a back up but would not want one as primary drive now
 
I would suggest that buying a 9.9hp outboard, longshaft,on a lifting bracket would be a good idea,not only for cheapness and ease of maintenance,but for future replacement options. Make sure the bracket will be able to pivot/ lift the prop clear of the water,when sailing.
A new engine of say 10hp(7.5Kw) like a Volvo2010 or the Beta or Nanni is going to set you back £4k at least, probably needing new shaft and propellor, new engine bearers and mountings, and labour extra if not DIY.
Removing your old engine should be straightforward, and shaft, prop too; but you may want to remove the fuel tank too, bit awkward, but do-able.
A down-side of the outboard will be the charging of the batteries for domestics, and navigation, radio, which is not that high. Others on here may have ideas how this can be improved or boosted.

I shouldn't think that there is a major difficulty in sealing off the shaft aperture through the hull,but again there will be forum members who will have done this and have the reliable answers. There may also be specific knowledge on the Westerly Owners Associiation forum on all these aspects.

The 9.9hp is fairly weighty so with fuel tank also inboard the weight distribution should be OK, though I'd secure in the cabin if leaving on open moorings to avoid theft.

ianat182
 
You might consider keeping the Petter, if you are willing/able to fettle it yourself. I agree, new spares are a silly price and paying a fitter to attend to it is out of the question. There are lots of used bits around however (most interchangeable with the 12hp twin) and finding a used fuel pump for £10 should be a simple matter. If it then blew up in a few seasons time bite the bullet.
A dodgy water pump and leaking fuel should not condem an otherwise good engine. I had similar thoughts when I bought a new boat with a Petter, it ran superbly for another 15 (fifteen!) years, I sold it as a runner and it is still going.
 
I agree. If the Petter is basically sound, then items like water and fuel pumps are what you might call 'service replacement' items, and its going to take a long time before you spend the same as a replacement new engine will cost, even if the items are pricey. Also the boat will have a ceiling value that might make large outlays uneconomic unless you get very long term use out of the boat.

Unless the Petter really has had it, i'd stick with it, and maybe have a small outboard as a 'get you home' but I know space is at a premium on a small boat, as I've got one:D

I've seen some really nice 'tidy up' jobs done on old engines, and sometimes thats all they need, subject to crank/bore/rings condition etc.

P.S. I sometimes suspect marine engineers are a bit like us gas engineers in that its often easier to bung in a new boiler/engine than try and fix the old one, but a lot of that is down to the labour costs of employing a professional to do time consuming fault finding and repair work on an older machine. If you are content to learn and can get a manual for the engine, or have a friend handy with the spanners who you can pay in beer and pizza, then the economics of repair and maintainance of older machines is a lot more attractive.

Tim
 
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I was always a diesel fan too having always sailed on 30-40ft yachts (except for childhood bad memories of a little o/b on a Leisure 17) until I bought our 24ft Foxhound. She has a 4HP Mariner on the back and goes nicely. When there is chop we should be sailing anyway, but a few weeks ago our 4HP drove us nicely into moderate breeze and a chop off Cowes when we got bored of tacking upwind. Control in a marina is amusing but probably just needs practice and I wouldn't go 'cruising' on the outboard, but compared to the cost of putting an inboard in, if you're staying around the solent I'd say you'll be fine. Still, if I had the money I'd put an inboard in just because that rumble under your feet is somehow reassuring.

Anyway, try the o/b and if it doesn't work out, sell it and fit an i/b. Easier than trying them in the other order... :)
 
VicS said:
loss of the control an inboard gives when manoeuvring under power is one downside,
also
prop lifting from the water
Click to expand...

I agree with the second, but not with the first. Having an outboard you can put into forward and reverse and swivel while using the tiller at the same time gives unparalleled manoeuvrability.

OP, I sailed a Westerly Jouster for many years - that's the stripped down racing version of the Warwick. It's only a ton, but I found few problems using Yamaha 4hp or a Seagull for power. The only downside, is, as VicS says, that the prop comes out of the water in bouncy condition ... but then what are sails for?

If I were you I wouldn't even consider an inboard.
 
and then an electric outboard?
Click to expand...
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VicS said:
9de80c77.gif
Click to expand...

Steady on, I can see the logic, and when you want a fish supper you just stick the electrodes from the genny over the side, and Bobs your Uncle, fresh fish.

Sometimes you just have to think laterally, or dorsally if its a fish:D

Tim
 
Keep the Petter running as long as you can. Replacement with a 1GM is not straightforward. My old 1GM has just gone into a GK24. New engine beds, new controls, mostly new exhaust, new shaft and prop. All new parts and you are looking at about £1000 on top of the basic engine if you DIY. OK if you can find a secondhand engine as good as mine - but I got £1200 for it and could have sold it at least 5 times from one ad in Boats and Outboards!
 
Many thanks for all your comments. Interesting that a few of you don't think the Petter is scrap just yet! I do have a great fondness for the little lump, its just that I don't want to start throwing good money after bad. If I can get this wretched fuel leak sorted for a small outlay then much the better. In all fairness she does start on the button and there is no smokiness...

Whilst in the process of getting this problem sorted I have been using my little suzuki 2.5 on the back and have been amazed how good it is. I had to motorsail with it to Seaview and back the other day as the wind was rather poor and the only time it lifted clear was when we were hit by a huge wake from an inconsiderate gin palace driver. (now where did I put my personal rocket launcher!!?)

My current thinking is that I may invest in a reasonable 'saildrive' longshaft type outboard as a backup (say a 5-6 hp Tohatsu or Mariner) and see if I can keep the petter running for a few more seasons. I'm an airline pilot in my other life and therefore a firm believer in the 'two engines is better than one' moto. I can't see the cost/benefit ratio stacking up in favour of a new 1GM10 or Beta on a relatively modest little cruiser, and it certainly wouldn't entirely reflect in the potential resale value.

Do any of you have any advice as to where to get hold of service spares for the mini 6? I'd prefer not to have to play the ebay lottery every time she needs a service! Most places I have tried curl up their noses and give me the usual 'obselete mate' patter.
 
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