Our survey says...

[Cotillion]

I looked at a Sadler 29 yesterday.

The owner had the boat surveyed last month, which reports, 'The hull showed moisture readings of 19-20 which is high. There is however no evidence of structural damage or hull failure and I see no reason to adderss this problem unless you are selling the vessel'.

Personally I have no problems with this but due to mania that surrounds the 'O' word ("I have a headache. It must be a brain tumor"), I can't deny it has an affect when you try to resell. If my plan was to keep this boat until death, then I wouldn't be troubling you, just writing out a cheque for the deposit. However I'm only looking for two or three years service from it before selling it on.

So what I would like to know is, if it is taken out for four months (Winter) of the year and the anti-foul removed, do you think it will dry-out a bit, stay much the same as it is, or is it on the downward slope to becoming slurry.

kim

P.S. Does anyone know how dry it (meter reading) has to be before it's worth giving it a coat or several of epoxy. I understand these machines don't actually measure moisture content but elctro thingamebobs but a line has to be drawn somewhere so a guide is requested please.

Thanks

 

[FullCircle]

Well, the survey has given you the answer, and the current owner the answer too.
He must either reduce the price to cover the peel and re gel coat, or you must haggle to do the same.
I have bought boats with high moisture and blisters in the past, and mentally I write it off as 'just one of those things'. But that was on boats worth less than 10 grand.

There is no mileage at all in trying to dry the boat out a bit, as the osmosis doesnt go away if starved of water, just lies in wait for you.

If, as you seem to imply, that the boat is in otherwise spanking condition, and is of course a well respected marque and model,(so easy to generate enquiries on when selling) I would be writing the cheque, albeit with fewer noughts on.

 

[moondancer]

I understand that the moisture reading should be less than 10 for it to OK to apply epoxy. I don't think your boat will dry out on her own. Either costly treatment or negotiate down on price and then decide whether or not to do the treatment.

 

[BAtoo]

Awaiting a survey report on our boat - being sold - and await the verdict. I have however tried to preempt this by stating that if osmosis is found then I would be prepared to negotiate half of the cost of the job done in our local yard. Not prepared to pay all as the new owner has the benefit of any treatment he chooses to undertake.
I have not crossed the bridge of "high moisture readings". Not sure what it means rally; if there are no blisters is it significant or is it just a precursor to blisters??

I agree that it wont dry out by itself during the winter; our Sadler 32 took months - September to May IIRR - to dry after peeling.

 

[Powersalt]

The only thing I can add to what has already been said is that boats do not really dry out when left ashore in the winter. If you want to dry out a boats hull from normall moisture content you need it out for the summer, possibly with a wind tunnel created or de humidifiers in a sealed area.

You do not say the Osmosis word just a high moisture content which would ultimatley cause osmosis, and I guess its at what stage you can save the hull or treat the hull

 

[simonfraser]

find another one, must be easier in the long run, can't be the only sadler 29 on the planet.

 

[Cotillion]

Thanks all for puting me right.

Yes it was a spanker apart form the high reading. Of course to proceed with a renewed offer is a logical step, even if I'm guaranteed some problems later on.

As I said before if it was long term I'd be quite content to drill and fill any blisters that come up but it is likely to be a short term purchase so..

kim

 

[johnalison]

I believe Sadler changed their resins from the old polyester to modern iso-whatsits in 1985, so it might make a difference to you according to when she was built.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Hold on ,hold on!!!!!!!!
Moisture readings are notoriously variable. On my boat, the surveyer took readings well above the waterline as a basis for comparison and calibration as different resins give different readings. The capacitive type of meter measures the dielectric constant and this can be quite variable so that a reading of 19-20 in isolation is not necessarily significant until a calibration has been made. I also disagree that GRP boats don't dry out. Many resins take up a certain amount of water without the onset of osmosis. Certainly try for a price adjustment of £5 to £7 K to cover the worst outcome but it may not be necessary.
more detail at:http://www.bluestarsurveys.co.uk/sovguide.pdf

 

[Bilgediver]

I agree that it wont dry out by itself during the winter; our Sadler 32 took months - September to May IIRR - to dry after peeling.

***************************************************

Believe it or not but this so called drying process can be accelerated by spraying the hull with hot water twice a day if possible untill the vinegar smell goes. A large garden sprayer is fine for the job.

The hot water disolves salts or something which form and slow down the breathing hence washing them away speeds things up.

This is of course done after you have either peeled or sandblasted or drilled the gelcoat.

 

[Bajansailor]

Did your surveyor actually state 'She has osmosis', or did he just comment that the moisture readings were 'high'?
It would be useful to be able to compare the readings he took above the waterline with those below.

I have a Tramex moisture meter, and it often gives 'high' readings, and starts beeping at me when applied to yacht bottoms, yet there usually is no actual sign of osmosis as such.

Was the bottom of 'your' boat ever epoxied?
Our boat was painted with a few coats of WEST epoxy on her bottom about 10 years ago - last time we hauled out, moisture readings appeared to be 'high' the day after haul out, but they were noticeably lower just a week or so later. There was no sign of any osmosis then. She will be coming out again soon, after having been in the water for 2 years - I am planning on re-doing the epoxy on the bottom this time.

Re your Sadler, if there is no obviously blatant indications of rampant osmosis, I would tend to leave it alone - however as suggested above it would be prudent to negotiate the price downwards now to take account of possibly having to 'do' an osmosis treatment during your ownership.
And if nothing happens osmosis wise (with moisture levels staying fairly steady) during the next few years and you then decide to sell, then you can have an asking price that allows the next purchaser to 'beat you down' in the same fashion, to allow for the cost of the treatment 'if required'.
That will keep him / her happy, while you shouldnt lose much by allowing yourself to be 'beaten down' - perhaps just the difference in cost of osmosis treatment then due to inflation, and perhaps some depreciation on the boat.

 

[Billjratt]

Yup, consider the difference between a wet hull and the dreaded ""O". Ask the owner if he left it in for season after season. Also, no blisters then no smelly stuff oozing? Boats do absorb a little of what they float in, that's why the racers like to get them out and a few pounds weight off over winter.

 

[essexboy]

Anybody know if/how moisture meters are checked for calibration ?

 

[jwilson]

I was under the impression all Sadler 29s were double-skinned with foam buoyancy between, like the Sadler 26s and 32s. If so the moisture may not be in the GRP itself but in the foam - usually it gets in where owners have cut or drilled the inner skin to fit stuff and not totally sealed the holes. If so it will be almost impossible to dry out. Discuss with your surveyor???

 

[pandos]

I do not know too much about "O" but it would seem to me that if there is a link between a wet hull and osmosis. Then a wet hull that shows no signs of the "plague" is a safer bet then a dry hull that shows no signs.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

7 years ago the insurance survey on our yacht(Centurion 32) had an almost similar comment re moisture content. At recent insurance survey the figures had hardly altered and surveyor made the same comment! Boat is out of the water each winter. Suggest you negotiate reduced price and keep an eye open for blisters and only do something if they turn up. Gell coat peeling is drastic!

 

[harvey]

For me the critical thing would be how easy it was to sell in a couple of years time. What would a prospective buyer think of high readings if you did nothing about it.
John

 

[00Si00]

Hi
I bought a sadler 32 last year. The surveyor reported that there were high moisture readings in the skeg and rudder(the boat was built in 1980) and noted that whilst it did not pose a significant problem now, care should be taken not to let the condition worsen. So, 2 months later ive hauled her out and scraped the a/f and vc tar layer off to inspect the surface. Although I found 2 pimple sized spots which leaked a vinegary liquid i found the surface to be in excellent condition.
At the time of the survey though, I freaked out about it enough to the broker to reduce the total cost by 4k, and agreed at the same time to meet half the cost of repair- thus reducing the actual cost by 2k and inhereiting the rather minor problem ive mentioned above.
All in all, if you like the boat, and your prepared to do a little work on her by yourself, you might end up with the boat of your dreams....

 

[Sheff]

As John Wilson says, this could be a problem with the foam core.

I spent over a year looking at Sadler 34's including one in Jersey which had this problem. The boatyard had core-drilled the inner hull to take foam samples and allow the core to dry. They had installed heaters in the boat but admitted that it was virtually mission impossible to guarantee a cure.

Even if they dried out the core they would have to re-bed every through-hull fitting and re-bond the the hull to the deck as there was no way of knowing where the water was getting in.

Unfortunately one of the drawbacks of the early twin hulled boats as the foam core apparently often didn't bond very well.

 

[maxi]

First thing, get your surveyor to do his job properly and describe the instrument that he has used and the scale that apply otherwise a reading of"xx" is meaningless.

On my own instrument a reading moisture of "5" represents a bone dry laminate and a reading of "30" = saturation. A reading of "18" therefore represents an elevated level but not alarmingly so.

High moisure readings are by no means an accurate indicator of future problems with osmosis/hydrolysis, but patches of high moisure within an otherwise ok laminate would beg for close inspection.

A decent surveyor will provide you diagrammatic indications of where readings were taken and the levels found. Comparison of below waterline readings and topside readings will provide you with a meaningful indication of whats is going on in the hull.

Rudders and skegs very often return very high readings but with no long term detriment, other than a pain in the resale value.