Orca Interaction Poll

What Should Be Done to Deter Orca Interactions with Yachts?

  • Tag the pod(s) and track their movements

    Votes: 10 17.9%

  • Cull the pod(s)

    Votes: 6 10.7%

  • Cull the suspect Orcas

    Votes: 9 16.1%

  • Develop an effective pinger

    Votes: 22 39.3%

  • Continue with commercially available anti-degredation pingers

    Votes: 1 1.8%

  • Something else - which is.........

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • Total voters
    56
  • Poll closed .
Major_Clanger

Major_Clanger

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It'd be interesting to see opinion on what we should do about Orca interactions. I think we all agree that something has to be done, we can't just continue with the status quo as the interactions seem to be becoming more frequent and more widespread.

So on the assumption that doing nothing is not an option, what would you suggest?
 
I don’t think trackers would work when they can travel 100nm in a day and many boats don’t have Internet.
Effective pingers exist now. The problem is they aren’t safe for the Orca so perhaps what you meant is a safe pinger?
I’m not in favour of culling intelligent animals simply for the convenience of leisure sailors even though I am one and intend to sail that way next year.

If there was an easy answer it would have been found, I doubt the brains trust on this forum have much to add to the subject but maybe we’ll get lucky
 
So assuming there is an outright "winner" idea in the poll. How does that move us forward? What are you going to do with the results of the poll? Do you think the Spanish or Portuguese authorities are going to listen to the results of our poll? Companies have tried to convince us pingers work. They don't but they probably made a lot of money selling them. Tagging doesn't work. At best hit and miss, and of limited longevity as the battery runs out. Good luck with culling in this woke world. The problem has been there for 4 years now and governments have done nothing except sit on the fence.
The local sailors know what works best, they learnt it from the fishermen. If you've been following the thread you will also know. What will a poll achieve?
 
Whats an anti-degredation pinger?

Sounds useful. Does it stop milk going off without a fridge, or is it merely for preserving dead whales? Or P?

Is the unusual spelling for copyright reasons?
 
Last edited:
greeny said:
So assuming there is an outright "winner" idea in the poll. How does that move us forward? What are you going to do with the results of the poll? Do you think the Spanish or Portuguese authorities are going to listen to the results of our poll? Companies have tried to convince us pingers work. They don't but they probably made a lot of money selling them. Tagging doesn't work. At best hit and miss, and of limited longevity as the battery runs out. Good luck with culling in this woke world. The problem has been there for 4 years now and governments have done nothing except sit on the fence.
The local sailors know what works best, they learnt it from the fishermen. If you've been following the thread you will also know. What will a poll achieve?
Click to expand...
You're right, a poll won't necessarily achieve anything but then nor will the status quo we find ourselves in. It isn't incumbent upon any country to find an answer; it's on us, the international sailing community. We're out there for recreational reasons and shouldn't expect any help at government level from anyone.

There is no 'what works best'. There is no pattern we can read and learn from, there have been interactions inshore and offshore, in shallow and deep water, near tuna nets and far away, in Biscay and in the Straits when the tuna are elsewhere. What was thought to be good avoidance tactics a couple of years ago has no proved to be ineffective.

I'm interested to know what my fellow sailors think is the best way forward and having a poll means their answers aren't scattered over many pages, but just on one.

Perhaps I will do something - the working part of the anti-depredation pingers is quite small. My suggestion would be to have that attuned to an actual frequency that these Orcas don't like. I don't mean a generic frequency or Orcas in general, I mean the Orcas that live between Ouessant and Malaga, and a frequency tested and proven. It would then be a simple job to encapsulate the pinger in a weighted holder ready to deploy, or perhaps even trailed over the stern. The only part which would be expensive would be research and testing but if enough people were involved then the costs shouldn't be crippling.
 
Sea Change said:
This might work:

View attachment 202297
Click to expand...
Dont need these devices or boat modifications. Local sailors know the solution. Much of the hullabaloo and procrastination now is by sailors planning to come into the area and by people who have never and will never sail in the area and are bored on a winter evening so decide to post things to generate something for them to do while the wife is watching tv. The governments involved are not interested in solving the problem because any action against orcas is seen as a political land mine of public opinion. As i said in earlier post, the solution is out there. Sailors just need to decide if it fits with their conscience to do so.
Got more important things to deal with. Finger pontoon breaking away with boat attached, courtesy of Claudia. Roped it off as temporary measure yesterday until i can get marineros interested in something today.
 
Ever since I learnt that orcas are wearing salmon hats, I’ve been doing the same and have received zero rudder attacks from orcas.

Salmon hat - Wikipedia

Top tip: if you curve the salmon and then freeze it it’s much easier to keep it on your head, especially in rougher conditions.
 
greeny said:
Dont need these devices or boat modifications. Local sailors know the solution. Much of the hullabaloo and procrastination now is by sailors planning to come into the area and by people who have never and will never sail in the area and are bored on a winter evening so decide to post things to generate something for them to do while the wife is watching tv. The governments involved are not interested in solving the problem because any action against orcas is seen as a political land mine of public opinion. As i said in earlier post, the solution is out there. Sailors just need to decide if it fits with their conscience to do so.
Got more important things to deal with. Finger pontoon breaking away with boat attached, courtesy of Claudia. Roped it off as temporary measure yesterday until i can get marineros interested in something today.
Click to expand...
What's the solution then?

That rudder spike device was made by a yard in Galicia by the way.
 
greeny said:
Dont need these devices or boat modifications. Local sailors know the solution. Much of the hullabaloo and procrastination now is by sailors planning to come into the area and by people who have never and will never sail in the area and are bored on a winter evening so decide to post things to generate something for them to do while the wife is watching tv. The governments involved are not interested in solving the problem because any action against orcas is seen as a political land mine of public opinion. As i said in earlier post, the solution is out there. Sailors just need to decide if it fits with their conscience to do so.
Got more important things to deal with. Finger pontoon breaking away with boat attached, courtesy of Claudia. Roped it off as temporary measure yesterday until i can get marineros interested in something today.
Click to expand...
The Governments aren't sitting on the fence; they have no obligation, formal or otherwise, to sort the problem out. It's OUR problem and WE must sort it out and the only procrastination I see is caused by the question of who foots the bill.

Sure we can cull them (which I'm presuming is the answer that you're alluding to?), problem solved. Something gets in our way...... no probs, just get rid of it...... How can that be a responsible answer? It's got nothing to do with the nonsense of wokery. We're out on the water for recreational reasons, so what on earth gives us the right to kill something because it prevents a potential obstacle to that? Haven't we progressed up the evolutionary ladder enough to search for another solution? We already sail on a fairly empty sea, let's not make it worse.

I'm convinced pingers are the answer. Not the ones available now; they're generic, and aimed at all dolphins. We need something aimed not just at Orcas, but the Orcas that live in the waters in question. Something attuned to keep them away. They're very far from stupid and, I think, will get the message quickly.

Who pays for it? Well if we can get the RFEV, FPV, FFV and RYA around the table, then collectively research into pinger frequency could be funded. The pingers themselves are very cheap in the scheme of things and so the end cost to us shouldn't be huge.

For the FAT - I hadn't intended this to become a separate thread to the one already pinned, I imagined it as a poll only. Feel free to merge it if preferred.
 
I don't know whether pingers work or there is evidence that they do however there is evidence that sub surface detonation of small explosives work. So that is what I would suggest using.
There must be between 20 and 50 Orca now so a cull would I think be internationally unacceptable and identifying individuals is probably not possible. The cull should have happened in 21/22 when they just started in earnest and it seemed to be specific to one pod and matriarch.
 
I don't know whether pingers work or there is evidence that they do however there is evidence that sub surface detonation of small explosives work. So that is what I would suggest using.
There must be between 20 and 50 Orca now so a cull would I think be internationally unacceptable and identifying individuals is probably not possible. The cull should have happened in 21/22 when they just started in earnest and it seemed to be specific to one pod and matriarch.
 
I don’t want the RYA involved in research on this matter, for what is a problem mostly for boats outside the RYAs home country remit. It’s for the EU and interested 3rd party governments to solve, if indeed a solution is needed.
 
The pod or pods of rogue animals that are highlighted, always, on here is 70 plus creatures. Try asking a Moroccan fisherman with hand line how they feel about it. Plus Spanish and Portugese fisherman too.

Ask Alaskan fishermen how 1900 or more of them are wrecking their livelihoods.

Ask any yachtsman who has had his boat damaged or sunk about how he felt about it and any skippers duty of care for their crew.

Or a chicken farmer about foxes.

Or any animal farmer anywhere about predators.

Or people like ne who sailed in the Straits of Gibraltar for a living.

Or any seal......
 
hand-grenade-16089738.jpg
 
Fr J Hackett said:
I don't know whether pingers work or there is evidence that they do however there is evidence that sub surface detonation of small explosives work. So that is what I would suggest using.
Click to expand...
Im sure i read something ages ago about the usa military testing acoustic deterrents but discovered the orca within minutes learn how to ignore it.
Suggesting explosive devices against an endangered and protected species is just irresponsible.
The owner of a catamaran back in 2023 who used some sort of explosive or firearm device against the orca is now looking at prosecution.
 
Rappey said:
Im sure i read something ages ago about the usa military testing acoustic deterrents but discovered the orca within minutes learn how to ignore it.
Suggesting explosive devices against an endangered and protected species is just irresponsible.
The owner of a catamaran back in 2023 who used some sort of explosive or firearm device against the orca is now looking at prosecution.
Click to expand...
Who would know that they were used and the idea is to make them leave the area. Chewing rudders and sinking boats endangering life is grossly irresponsible
 
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