Optimist gooseneck

[richardabeattie]

When launching her Optimist my granddaughter needs to paddle it out a fair way to get into water deep enough to allow the long dagger board to be lowered. The boom gets in the way. It has a plastic end fitting which clips round the mast. I'd like to replace it with an articulated gooseneck which also clips round the mast but which would allow the boom to be lifted up out of the way. She will then have the first Optimist in West Wales with a topping lift! I've looked at windsurfer goosenecks but they all seem to need to be fixed permanently to the mast. Any other ideas?

 

[ShinyShoe]

Paddle? As in she is pushing the boat out while in the water or as in she is using an oar etc to get out?

You seem to have found an issue that isn't a major headache for the main fleet - suggests something might not be right on your setup? The Daggerboard does obstruct the mast when it is put in on shore, probably by about 15-20cm. so in maybe 40cm of water you can drop the board enough to gain the mast. If there is no kick up rudder (not class legal to have one but I don't think you are going class legal if you are changing goosenecks) it is probably the same depth.

We'd wade out to full board depth and launch them from there.

The goose should just be a U shape basically so should be able to unclip to lift the boom if you wanted and very easy to pop on at 'cast-off' - harder is the world's worst design of kicking strap!

But if you are trying to dry launch... #forget-it

 

[lw395]

I suppose you need a fitting a bit like the gaff jaws on a (old skool gunter rig) mirror. Doesn't clip around the mast, it is loose but retained by a piece of string.
I'm not aware of any commercial fitting that would do the job.
Possibly the real answer is to sit forwards to paddle, so the boom is less in the way?
Beware of devaluing your optimist by taking it outside class rules.

 

[richardabeattie]

The dagger board does not obstruct the mast - it is the boom that is in the way. She needs to be able to sit in the boat both to paddle it out into deep water and to get back when the wind disappears or, as it does in Fishguard Harbour, goes round in circles bouncing off the hills. I'm not the slightest bit interested in the class rules and, as the nearly new boat and very clever demountable trolley cost £350, depreciation is not a problem! If there's no suitable fitting on the market I will end up cutting the gooseneck off and refitting it on a pivot.

The next mod will be to fit a bowsprit!

 

[ShinyShoe]

Sorry Richard, I was clearly too tired last night I meant to say boom.

So I don't think most people are paddling out to deeper water is the reality. They are wading out. I think as soon as the breeze picks up paddling into an onshore breeze (+/- tide) to get enough depth is "challenging".

If people are paddling out then why not fully lift the dagger board out? (I makes a very large paddle if you are ever in need!)

On the gooseneck- you currently presumably have something resembling a C with a rod that does into the boom so something like this: ---C

There will already be holes in the gooseneck as part of the standard rigging:

Are you using them?

I'd be tempted to do something like this:



with Shock cord for the blue. Will allow the boom to be lifted up parallel with the mast... If set right the C clip holds it to the mast under normal conditions with the Vang doing its job to help keep it there. Then When she comes back ashore, vang off, lift boom by hand C will pop off the mast but the shock cord keeps it close so there is no flying boom...

If you aren't using the holes already there check out: http://www.optistuff.com/info/faq/manuals/OptimistBasicRigging101.pdf (Look at the "Bling" ) Because I think you could probably do a bit of hibrid of both to make it slightly easier to "fold" the boom

 

[TLouth7]

My recollection is that optimist goosenecks do not really clip onto the mast at the best of times, being barely more than half a circle. Thus the only issue with raising the boom is that it could fall out of alignment, making lowering difficult. Could you fit a couple of plates to the front end of the boom which keep it aligned as you raise it to vertical? A google search for "Mirror dinghy gaff jaws" shows the required shape. These plates would not be an issue when sailing, and if merely clamped around the boom (with a couple of long bolts) would be fully demountable (to allow for further tinkering).

Make sure that the tack of the sail is tied to the gooseneck and not merely laced around the boom - otherwise there is a risk the boom will slide forwards/down and therefore be impossible to lower.

 

[Greenheart]

The open-mouthed boom connection sounds like the Topper's, with which I grew familiar, a lifetime ago, so it seems.

Unless the young lady is extremely petite, it sounds like it would be easier to wade the boat out far enough for the top of the part-lowered daggerboard to be below the boom, rather than determinedly standing the board high out of its case, in shin-deep water.

Regarding paddling to access the sailing area...in my Topper, I found that if the rudder was half-raised on its pivot, the boat could be driven along with extraordinary ease, by waggling the tiller. In fact for several weeks in about 1985, I grew so irritated by the unreliable wind-strength that I would spend long days exploring without mast or sail, just sculling the hull by waggling the rudder.

If the Optimist's rudder could be made to pivot slightly, and assuming its hangings are robust (and that the young lady is not a budding shot-putter), she will find it exceedingly productive to waggle the tiller. Some daggerboard depth keeps the boat pointing ahead, and the thrust from the rudder blade drives the boat fast through calm patches. Much easier than messing about with a paddle.

 

[VicS]

When launching her Optimist my granddaughter needs to paddle it out a fair way to get into water deep enough to allow the long dagger board to be lowered. The boom gets in the way. It has a plastic end fitting which clips round the mast. I'd like to replace it with an articulated gooseneck which also clips round the mast but which would allow the boom to be lifted up out of the way. She will then have the first Optimist in West Wales with a topping lift! I've looked at windsurfer goosenecks but they all seem to need to be fixed permanently to the mast. Any other ideas?

I dont understand the problem ?

In a similar way the Mirror dagger board fouls the boom but I have never found it necessary to raise the boom to clear it. Usually the boom is not dead over the centre anyway.

Like wise the dagger board in the children's Prout Puffin fouls the boom

I'd guess the same applies to almost all dinghies with dagger boards, not to mention the thousands of other Optimists


Looking at the drawings of the Optimist suggests that by the time the water is deep enough for the rudder it is deep enough for the dagger board to be inserted and lowered far enough to clear the boom.

Suggest watching the rest of the local Optimist fleet to see how they all manage ......... even some formal instruction from someone familiar with the Optimist


When it comes to children sailing Optimists the best place for grandfathers is probably in the club bar !

 

[Greenheart]

The next mod will be to fit a bowsprit!

Don't joke - as soon as you realise how much fun a sprit may offer, you'll start taking the idea seriously! (So might mademoiselle!)

If you want to make a modification, wouldn't a long case allowing a pivoting centreboard, be appropriate?

I hadn't realised how deep the Optimist's daggerboard goes...2ft 9", apparently.

 

[Iain C]

I think you're over complicating things OP. It will only be a problem if she's trying to paddle directly upwind...let the mainsheet go and aim slightly away from dead upwind and she should be fine. I would also say from a safety point of view, if the topping lift uncleats itself she might get hit on the head, and also you are massively increasing the risk of entrapment if she falls onto the sail during a capsize, or gets her leg caught round it during an inversion.

Hundreds of thousands of Oppie sailors past and present have not had a problem with this, so perhaps just a different technique will help? Or just make a new "shoal draught" daggerboard? When she grows and wants to start sailing Teras/Fevas/Mirrors/29ers she'll only have to learn the correct technique then anyway...

 

[richardabeattie]

One last post and then I quit this thread! The boat has to be moved a fair distance usually dead into the wind over a foreshore littered with big stones making wading out difficult. The daggerboard is not the problem as there is now a hole half way up it which takes a pin to hold it up until in deep water. The problem, which I thought I had made clear, was that sitting in the boat and using a double ended paddle is a problem if the boom is in the way. I will now creep away and find a way of lifting the boom whilst not disengaging it from the mast. After that the bow thruster.

 

[claymore]

If you were any kind of a decent Grandpa - ye'd be in the water, up to yer oxsters keeping the wee lass supported - and the same process when she's coming back in...

 

[VicS]

One last post and then I quit this thread! The boat has to be moved a fair distance usually dead into the wind over a foreshore littered with big stones making wading out difficult. The daggerboard is not the problem as there is now a hole half way up it which takes a pin to hold it up until in deep water. The problem, which I thought I had made clear, was that sitting in the boat and using a double ended paddle is a problem if the boom is in the way. I will now creep away and find a way of lifting the boom whilst not disengaging it from the mast. After that the bow thruster.

No you had not mentioned a double ended paddle ! Nor the unsuitable launching site.

Very unusual I would have thought and a PITA in almost any sailing dinghy .... both the paddle and the launching site.


I reckon the solutions are the more usual "Praddel" and a sailing club with a better launch site!

 

[richardabeattie]

Right - definitely my last response. The Fishguard launching site is at the bottom of my garden. At age 5 she can row and is starting to sail but is unable to drive for miles to find a better place. As a native of East Lothian I am prepared to pit a stoot hert tae a stae brae but not to wade out into waters as warm as they are in Wales. Amazing that a simple question about goosenecks should turn into such a wide ranging debate. Goodnight.

 

[Iain C]

Amazing that a simple question about goosenecks should turn into such a wide ranging debate. Goodnight.

Perhaps if you'd stated clearly "my grandaughter wants to be able to sit in the middle of an Optimist dingy and lift the boom up out of the way so she can use a double ended paddle for without it fouling the boom...any ideas for a suitable hinging gooseneck please" rather than leaving us to work out what you were after from words such as "The dagger board does not obstruct the mast - it is the boom that is in the way" and going on about circling winds in Fishguard Harbour, West Wales topping lifts and other stuff that was totally irrelevant you may have got better answers. I'm sure I apologise on behalf of my fellow thread contributors for having wasted your time with our attempts to help you...Goodnight indeed!

 

[Greenheart]

Ach, ye canna quit a good thread so easily, Mr Beattie.

We hadn't known quite what the issue is. Clear now, though.

Given that the dear gal is keen, mightn't the simple answer be to show her exactly how to hoist the gaff and sail...

...so she can then paddle the boat out with sail, boom & gaff down, not obstructing the daggerboard, sticking up high...

...then when she's out, head to wind in three feet of water with the daggerboard down, she can hoist the rig and park the paddle?

The double-ended paddle itself is an odd auxiliary for such a little person, in rather an angular, high-sided boat. Don't dismiss the sculling-rudder idea, it really does work well. :encouragement:

 

[sean__wong]

Richard
I hope your Little Sailor has now grown in to a keen older sailor.

I think we see the problem, an inconveniently long beach. If we had thought to look we would have seen the problem.
We have similar problems down under. But to be sure the Saltwater crocs are more of a concern.

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