Opps ....... I think I upset a Raggie !

Chris_B4

Chris_B4

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Not long after leaving Chichester Bar en route to Portsmouth I was faced with a line of four obstacles. From the left all heading towards me, a motorboat doing I guess 15 knots, a catamaran, a bouy a bit nearer (OK that wasn't heading towards me) and another yacht.

I was making 25 knots and figured that I would pass the bouy to starboard, which was almost on the nose, in time to alter again and go in between the two sail boats which appeared to me to be well apart. Anyhow, I didn't get to the bouy as soon as I hoped and the two sailboats seem to converge closing the gap (I'm now doing 25 knots straight at the cat)

With the benefit of hindsight I should have turned to starboard from the outset and gone right round all of them but it was too late for that now so I opted to turn to Port and go between the motorboat and the cat, I guess I was 30-40m away from the cat.

Do you think the man on board was waving a friendly gesture like that exchanged between those with a common love of the sea, I couldn't quite make it out !

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Have you got one of those little leaver things that allows you to slow down! /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif
If you did upset him, it would have been the wash wot dun it rather than the ability to assess a situation. /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

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Naaaaaaah! He was waving a copy of Rule 8 of the Col Regs.

Didn't you see?






P.S. (Only joking.)





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It does appear that you forgot that you have more than one control with which to alter the progress of your vessel. Why didn't you consider reducing speed?

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Chris, it was because you weer still in the harbour, this was as you were rounding east head was it not? Only joking....... I feel you have not mentioned how many raggies cut you up when you were going down the channel from Chichester to the bar, on a sunday i guess you had to avoid several small wind assisted craft and slow down change course and be polite in the harbour?

So my guess is the cat owner was asking you if you woudl call round sometime for a beer next time your over this way.......



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as a raggie, it often appears that the funny lever that changes the sound of the engine is forgotten about/forums/images/icons/smile.gif . we do understand that circumstances do dictate times when a relatively close pass to another boat cannot be avoided, However an attempt to reduce the wash would go a long way to avoid a temper tantrum. It should also be noted that the calmer the conditions, the worse the impact of wash on a raggie. When there is very little wind, the effect of the wash means that the mast swings from side to side, the sail tries to follow, and spills what little wind it has managed to trap, the sail then fills again, and slams against the ropes putting a lot of strain on the rigging - just in time for the next wave to spill the wind and re-start the cycle.

Can someone please explain why this is not taught in theory/practical courses?

Regardless of my tolerance, I would have re-arranged the face of the b*st**d in a 52 footer that passed abt 15m away from me last year doing the best part of 30 knots and filled my cockpit with his wash.



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It's a fair point that reducing speed would have given me more time to assess I have to admit that it didn't cross my mind but please don't roast me for this, the situation really didn't get all that hairy and I thought my wash at 30-40m off was bearable for decent sized yacht.

Beginning to wish I'd never mentioned it now but I'm not one to hide from my mistakes and it genuinely concerns me that I might have done something to upset another boater.

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well there was that time you ran from the bar, and the other time you dropped the raggie in cowes but thats another story... you a very hard nasty man... Im sure the yacht has had worse.... or ur missus


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I know what you mean about light airs but unless the yacht was a long way off slowing down would likely leave an even bigger wash for them to deal with as the motor boat came off the plane. You see this a lot at the entrance to Portsmouth harbour.

Anyhow it wasn't my intention to start another considerate wash debate.

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Chris,

I think you could look at it this way, you have probably convinced 2 sail boat types, why they should adopt power over sail.

If they had got twin engines they could have got out of your way ... problem solved..

Steve

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It is always a difficult call, about the size of the wash, and as I said before - I do understand and 40m in some areas would be considered to be well far enough. I suspect that a lot of the problems are really caused by the fact that a number of stinkies seem to like to cruise in v.close company (perhaps only one of them can navigate ? - joking really/forums/images/icons/smile.gif) and it is this combination of waves that does the real damage.

I have absolutely no axe to grind with the majority of guys, it is just (as with raggies) the few idiots who appear to do their utmost to create friction between both groups of boat lovers.

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Come an sail in Loch Lomond Chris, There isnae many Raggies tae upset up here./forums/images/icons/laugh.gif/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Although i was on a collision course with another motorboater on Saturday, I had right of Way, But he obviously didn't have a clue and kept coming, so i eased of and went round behind him.[Plonker].



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Just do what we do....

Wave back in a friendly manner whilst smiling with enjoyment!! It makes us howl how they seem to get angrier because they think, you think, they're waving in a friendly manner!! You can't hear them screaming above the whines of the turbo's anyhow!!!!

In fairness I always try to steer well clear. Problem is it's not always possible when confronted with a "sea of sails". If we slow down, just off the plane, it increases the wake anyhow. No win situation really......

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There is another issue here not just wake. It is somewhat disconcerting not to say frightening to see 10t of GRP heading towards you at 25knots being driven in what appears to be an erratic manner. Its akin to driving down a country road and having a big truck speed towards you and veer off at the last moment. Not funny
I'm a dyed-in-the wool stinkpotter myself but I have been out in the Solent on small yachts occasionally and I can tell you its not comfortable to see a fast motorboat bearing down on you
I know you didnt mean to cause any disturbance to the yottie but it would have been wiser to come off the plane as you passed irrespective of whether your wash was reduced or not

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Quote: “There is another issue here not just wake. It is somewhat disconcerting not to say frightening to see 10t of GRP heading towards you at 25knots being driven in what appears to be an erratic manner.”


A very good point, and often overlooked?




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Regarding the wash thing, why are these sail boats out at sea if they cannot handle a foot or so of wash from a passing motorboat? Agree passing close is to be avoided, and the point about a powerboat bearing down at 25 knots is a valid one, but all this leaping up and down because, shock, there are some waves created at sea!!

Strikes me as people getting upset because they want to be, "them damn stinkpots etc etc"

Live and let live raggies, if you don't like waves stand on the shore.

Ari.

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Do you think your wake mimics a natural wave or waves. I was up my mast at the weekend on the mooring last weekend while 'some' in fact few motor boats went past causing me to hang on for dear life, including the lifeboat.

Show me one natural phenomina that creates a situation like a power boat wake, just one! Talbot also made a very good point about passing too close during light airs.

Your response is not helping the attitudes of raggies with respect to motorboats and I think it is a shame you are willing to damage a generally excellent relationship. This thread was started by someone who realised he had made a bad judgement call and was big enough to admit it, and unlike you did not try to shift the blame over to the raggie who was the stand on vessel. Are you really willing to stand behind your words, do you really think raggies run for home every time there is a wave and leave you motor boats to stay out in the rough, no! really!

I have recently moved moorings to a pile near the entrance to the harbour and as said I was working up my mast. I have to be honest I am very worried about motorboat wakes where I am now sited, but so far it has to be said that 99% of all craft leaving or entering did so at well below 4kts which is the limit, they were obviously minding their wakes. I say congratulations to them, and thank you. To the 1% which appeared to be mostly day boats and small (3-4man) ribs, I hope you have expensive engine problems that make you give up the hobby.

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Wash is always a tricky issue, because when you are driving a motor cruiser at planing speeds (14kts+) on open water, the wash is smaller than at semi-displacement speeds (10-13 kts)... the ideal situation (from the MB point of view) is to be able to keep planing whilst passing other vessels at a reasonable distance, where "reasonable" varies according to traffic density. Coming off the plane generates a (temporary) wake substantially larger than that would have been produced by continuing at a constant speed, hence the dilemma.

In rivers, close to moorings etc., MB's operating at 4-5 knots shouldn't normally generate much wash. The unfortunate thing is that many harbour speed limits are set at 8 knots or 10 knots, which for a planing hull form, can be close to the "maximum wash" speed.

Another problem is that some diesel boats with high top speeds (40kts+) simply can't go slower (without going in/out of gear) than about 6 knots, even on one engine operating at idle.

In any case, no normal MB can generate a wash bigger than the one I encountered a couple of seasons back - I followed one of the larger tugboats back towards Portsmouth harbour as it was doing about 18 knots, and crossed it's wake about 150 feet behind, mainly to see what would happen. Several tens of gallons of green seawater coming onto the foredeck, up over the windscreen, and into the open cockpit is what happened.

Drip.

dv.

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For a serious problem with wash see:

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_maritimesafety/documents/page/dft_masafety_508309.pdf>http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_maritimesafety/documents/page/dft_masafety_508309.pdf</A>

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