Old Glass boat buying pitfalls.

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PJCC99999

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Hello all.

Am looking at taking the plunge and buying an old glass fiber sailing boat from the seventy's and eighties.

I have extensive experience with Large steel motor and sailing vessels ( Commercial 3000GT Master) So am confident with rigging and engineering . Though I know next to nothing about Glass fiber.

Am planing on getting a good surveyor in once I found the boat.

Though would much appreciate any advise or tips of what too look for to avoid any non starters Before getting the surveyor in.

Many Thanks in advance.
 
Making sure theres no hole is a good start!

Seriously, just a glance over to check for damage, previously repeared areas, intact and sealed fittings etc. would be a good start before you take the plunge and order the survey.

Just basic common sense will let you know whether or not the boat is good or a waste of time.
 
I don't know many technical details, but I do know that my 70s glass fibre boat is stronger than many - hand laid, v thick and v strong. Apparently during the transition from wood to fibreglass in the 70s makers didn't know quite how strong fibreglass would be, and so (the good makers I suppose) erred on the side of caution and over -engineered it. Mine is also totally clear of any sign of osmosis, and I have read that the longer a boat goes without showing osmosis, the less likely it is ever to do so. The down side of an older fibreglass boat is that it will have built up more marks and scratches over the years - adds to the character I suppose - if you want a blemish free-boat you pay the money for a new one. I guess thicker fibreglass also makes the boat heavier, which may or may not be a good thing depending how you look at it.
 
Osmosis is the big bugbear, but it can be sorted out these days and deducted from the asking price if necessary. Lots of boats or marques have an owners association and even their own forum, and these are a good source of advice once you've got something in mind. Please give me a call if you start looking at Elizabethans. As said, a lot of older boats had heavier lay-ups than is usual today, but not all of them. Also, lay-up techniques are better now than they were then, so many (like mine) needed the extra thickness to make up for possible flaws.

Good luck, I hope you find one you like.

Dave
 
what size / style of yacht are you looking for? do you have a specific make in mind? Issues affecting more mature boats are often design / manufacturer specific. I would however agree with mriley - I have a '72 Rival 32, the hull would probably survive a direct hit from an Exocet
 
Thoroughly agree with Mike although you don't have to buy a new one to get blemish-free topsides.
My Centaur is 1972/3 and looks as though it could go on forever. The original owner had it pigmented black when made to order by Westerly and the multiple scores and scratches through long use have now been disguised with a couple of coats of International Toplac applied with a foam roller - most peolpe think it's been sprayed. The most difficult part was getting the weather to co-operate at fitting out time!
One area you wo'nt be able to disguise easily is the star crazing on the white deck and cabin mouldings caused by bumps and dropped items like outboards.
All adds to the character.
Alan
 
Watch out for cored decks and other cored areas where moisture may have got in. A teak deck screwed down onto fibreglass often leads to rotted core material and leaks.
As others have said, early fibreglass boats from good builders were very heavily laid up.
 
You don't say what size boat you're looking at. Apart from the osmosis warnings; and it's not the killer people at first thought; I would look for evidence of stress fractures around standing rigging and signs of impact especially along the widest part of the beam, leading to damage on the topsides and adjacent deck areas.
If it's a skeg hung rudder see if the skeg is still as firm as it should be and not breaking free from the hull.
If it's a smaller boat with a deck-stepped mast check there is support below and that relevant bulkheads or compression posts are still doing their job. See if the deck head is bowing down under pressure from overtightened rigging.

Just look for things that you don't want to have to rectify later.
 
Apart from the glass side of things

There is a lot of good advice here which I won't attempt to add to as I have a wooden boat!

However, there is one thing that I can add - in my experience, the "expensive" parts of my boat have not been the wooden ones but the bits that are common to all boats - engine, rig, internal fitting out. Espescially the latter! Re-wiring and renewal of tanks and plumbing, berth cushions, galley stove, WC, seacocks, the yottitronics, etc.

The better quality the original equipment was, the longer it will last, so a boat built to a high spec. in the 60's or 70's may be cheaper, from this point of view, than a younger one, the GRP side of things being equal.
 
Nicholsons were considered a high quality boat building company so thats a good start.i think the others have covered most things to look for, good luck and let us know how it goes.
 
Note that hands and eyes are excellent tools and surprisingly adept at noting faults.

With eye - stand at bow and stern - a few feet away from boat and glance down sides ... you will notice if any difference in hull form - such as pressed former etc., filled damage, different gloss / shine to an area etc.

Running hands over surfaces - don't do it inside lockers etc. - many boats have un-resined mat some where and it hurts !! - the hand will detect any bump / blemish remarkably well.

Check with eye alignment of keel(s) ... take a measure from one side fitting down to front keel foot and then to aft keel foot - do same otherside .... will tell you if keel is straight or not.

Once you have sighted, touched and decided that hull appears fair and straight ... you board and start the sniff test .... Yep the nose tells you a lot about a boat interior .... the smell will tell you if ist looked after, been standing and left to its own devices, got damp etc.
Next before anything else serious ... check along the bunk cushion to hull edges and under cushions for moisture / damp and stale water .... it's actually common !
Then open all lockers ...sniff ... check for damp and mould etc.

Now the domestic stuff is basically checked out - now its bulkheads .... closely inspect as far as possible all bulkhead joints to mouldings / hull - for stress related cracks or strains. Look for overlap matting that is glassed onto the bulkheads - is it still well adhered ...

Look VERY closely at bulkheads and all vertical surfaces for darker areas indicating water ingress to cabin ... A flooded cabin will have caused change in hue of varnish / colour of wood bulkheads etc.

So if happy enough and haven't found any crazing, cracks or unusual water etc. - we now check out deck and cockpit.

Look at all bases of rails, stanchions, mast, shroud fittings etc. for crazing, cracking, failure of surrounding areas. Cockpit coamings at change of direction are prime sites for crazing ... of the gel coat.

With the mark 1 eyeball again .... sight along the coachroof and look for any strange change or indication of roof direction - possibly indicating mast compression of deckhead ...

So now you are thinking about going home ... before you go - 3 things to do.

1. Lift cockpit boards and see shaft / under ... is there grease sprayed around ? Indicates need to over grease seal and possibly repack of seal. Is there water - indicates leaking seal.

2. Back on ground ... shake, lift, waggle, generally try to get that rudder to move in every direction except correct - to check mounts.

3. Give the same treatment to the prop and shaft ... see if P bracket / cutlass is ok ....

The above is just a small part of what to look for ... If I was to give you all - then there's no point in me being a Surveyor !!!

Good luck - just remember that there are 3 things when looking at boats to buy ....

Eye is a good tool
Hand and Touch is another good tool
Your heart will cry out YES ! when you see the one you want - regardless of all else ... logic will fall aside ......
 
Re: Apart from the glass side of things

Other than the hull which others have rightly commented on the expensive bits are engine (?£5-6K); sails (?£2K); rigging(?£1K) and then basic electronics (?£500) in that order. Osmosis if it exists ?£5K.
A survey will help but it wont tell much about the engine; sails- comments probably confined to look good/reasonable/poor (which you can see yourself....); rigging will tell you to replace if no evidence of renewed in last 7yrs max; survey will be limited to "head-height" whilst on deck. But surveys do keep the bank/insurers happy.

Good hunting; a Nic 33 should be good..
 
Nics in the mid 70's were made by Halmatic, and very well made. Probably one of the best makers then. Nics also have a high ballast ratio, and by modern standards are heavy. Was out in a Force 6 two weeks ago, sailing on the mizzen and half a genoa. The Nic 32 sailing with us, had full main and a No1 jib... does not bother to reef the main until it gets "really windy"!
 
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