oil being forced out of the engine.

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atlowers

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Any ideas please. During winter ashore I removed and replaced injectors and injection pump and did an oil change. Boat went back in yesterday and on first run out 10mins in I had smoke in engine bay (oil burning) My Ford 2715e has an oil remoaval pump fitted and oil was pouring out of the pump tap. ejected abot a gallon. On return I checked the brether valve on rocker box and this was clear.
Thinking pressure build up in sump must be serious but when limping home I had no smoke problems from exhaust which would have expected if piston ring problems.
Anybody any ideas as to likely causes please as not sure where to start. Thanks.
 
atlowers said:
Any ideas please. During winter ashore I removed and replaced injectors and injection pump and did an oil change. Boat went back in yesterday and on first run out 10mins in I had smoke in engine bay (oil burning) My Ford 2715e has an oil remoaval pump fitted and oil was pouring out of the pump tap. ejected abot a gallon. On return I checked the brether valve on rocker box and this was clear.
Thinking pressure build up in sump must be serious but when limping home I had no smoke problems from exhaust which would have expected if piston ring problems.
Anybody any ideas as to likely causes please as not sure where to start. Thanks.
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What you describe are the classic symptoms of blowby. Often there is little change to exhaust smoke or colour, but crankcase pressure builds up due to combustion pressure being forced past the rings into the sump. To check: Block off the breather and any other openings in to the sump. Remove the oil filler cap. Block it off by hand with a bit of rag while you run the warm engine up at fast tickover (1500rpm ish) for about ten seconds. Open the oil filler and if there is a whoosh of air and gas, then you have blowby. Dont allow pressure to build more than 10 seconds as it can blow oil seals out.

This may of course be something that is specific to this engine, which I am not familiar with: any Ford experts out there?

Cause, if the engine was OK before the winter, you probably have stuck piston rings. You MIGHT free them by using an upper cylinder cleaner if you are lucky. They might even free themselves. Or you may be unlucky and have damaged or broken rings, which means a full strip down. This could happen if for example moisture has got in to the cylinder and caused corrosion.

Before stripping it down, get an experienced diesel engineer to do a leakdown test. He should be able to tell you more clearly what has gone wrong and which cylinders are affected. An compression test will tell you very little other than which cylinder is faulty.
 
atlowers said:
My Ford 2715e has an oil remoaval pump fitted and oil was pouring out of the pump tap. ejected abot a gallon.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming it wasn't as simple as the oil pump tap not being turned off (a daft thing to overlook, I know, but then who of us hasn't done something similar)? Otherwise it does sound like blow-by, which for your sake I very much hope it isn't.
 
Most likely cause is stuck piston rings. I had it happen on a Mitsubishi K4D, blew all the oil out.

Sometimes caused by moisture during winter lay-up but often the rings get gummed up by too much motor sailing at low revs.
 
My Ford 2715e has an oil remoaval pump fitted and oil was pouring out of the pump tap. ejected abot a gallon.
Click to expand...
So tap could not have been shut properly,

Shut tap and or plug the outlet.

Or am I missing something
 
Sounds like piston rings BUT it could possibly bea break through to an oil gallery in the cylinder head due to corrosion of the gasket over the winter. Get a compression test done and you will have a better idea regarding the source of the problem.
 
Thanks all for the replies. When I say tap, it is a hand operated push pull suction pump fitted on side of the engine specifically to remove sump oil for servicing purposes. It does not have an on off position but the pump handle is always left down and I had leakage even when holding this down when the problem was discovered so I am very concerned about the amount of pressure built up.
I noticed a nasty engine noise and so am fearing the worst but hoping it may be a timing issue and winter lay up causing stuck rings. Perhaps I will get lucky. Have looked for upper cylinder cleaners. Anybody had any success with them or recommends on usage as will try this before piling into worst case scenarios.
My plan is to try cleaner, block off tap to save further oil loss, do old harrys test and run her up to temp a couple of times and let her cool in hope of freeing rings if stuck.
Would have thought if ring was broken I would have big smoke problem. also on limp home she was not missing, just sounded a bit knocky. Hence wondering if I got the timing slightly wrong.

Can anyone recommend a good mechanic to do a leakdown test. I am Gosport based.

Thanks again everybody. Less than an hour after lift in and my season not looking good.
 
Update:- Took off rocker cover and turned it over. Massive blow by on No 4 cylinder. Could hear and see the escape. Nightmare. Cannot see how I can strip and remove engine so nothing to lose. Hoping its stuck and no broken ring. Anybody any ideas on how to unstick. If damaged, how much worse can it get if I try running to free the ring.
 
atlowers said:
Update:- Took off rocker cover and turned it over. Massive blow by on No 4 cylinder. Could hear and see the escape. Nightmare. Cannot see how I can strip and remove engine so nothing to lose. Hoping its stuck and no broken ring. Anybody any ideas on how to unstick. If damaged, how much worse can it get if I try running to free the ring.
Click to expand...

Can you describe exactly what you saw? Blowby happens between the piston and cylinder wall, not the most visible part of the engine? Sounds as though something else is going on from what you just said.
 
Thanks Old Harry, Rechecked the timing as pump had been off and happy we are spot on. When turning it over with rocker box off No 4 cylinder firing there was a pshhhs sound and a puff of atomised gas/spray ejected. I assumed from the pushrod hole but it was from directly cylinder No 4. It could not have been from the valve could it?
 
atlowers said:
Update:- Took off rocker cover and turned it over. Massive blow by on No 4 cylinder. Could hear and see the escape. Nightmare. Cannot see how I can strip and remove engine so nothing to lose. Hoping its stuck and no broken ring. Anybody any ideas on how to unstick. If damaged, how much worse can it get if I try running to free the ring.
Click to expand...

I think you're asking for trouble if you try running the engine, when it happened to ours it blew 5L oil out very quickly.

Do you have access and clearance above and below the engine? Sounds as if you need the sump and head off to remove the offending piston & rod to see what's happened. If the rings are stuck but the bore is OK, it's just a case of then removing the others (they may also be getting gummed) de-glaze the bores and, if the pistons are OK, fit new rings and assemble. While the head is off, you may as well give that an overhaul.
 
Graham,
after lift in we ran for maybe 20 mins at idle speed and no oil loss. Only happened when FOT. Having seen the escape last night I can understand why pressure build up and loss of oil happened so fast. Problem is, Cannot get access below without lifting Engine on a hoist and not sure how and where I could fit a hoist. Engines are in floor of covered wheelhouse so it is a seriously major option to strip. Therefore I thought that if trouble is a stuck ring it would be worth trying seafoam and after soak a few times, run engine up to temp on tick over and let cool and see if I get lucky with freeing it. Engine has done 3600 hours so may be worth a recon replacement if I have to remove it. Hence a reasonable gamble to try this potion stuff to at least try and save my season and plan for Ring replacement next winter.
 
atlowers said:
Engine has done 3600 hours so may be worth a recon replacement if I have to remove it.
Click to expand...

3600 hrs is nothing on that engine, with some care you should get 15-20,000hrs.

Stuck ring looks favourite, personally I would try and loosen the ring, it may require you removing th head. Pour some diesel on the offending piston and leave for a week to see if it helps, that is much easier than removing the engine.

Worst case is you will have to remove and strip the piston out, you may be able to lean the engine over to remove the sump.

Tom
 
atlowers said:
Graham,
after lift in we ran for maybe 20 mins at idle speed and no oil loss. Only happened when FOT. Having seen the escape last night I can understand why pressure build up and loss of oil happened so fast. Problem is, Cannot get access below without lifting Engine on a hoist and not sure how and where I could fit a hoist. Engines are in floor of covered wheelhouse so it is a seriously major option to strip. Therefore I thought that if trouble is a stuck ring it would be worth trying seafoam and after soak a few times, run engine up to temp on tick over and let cool and see if I get lucky with freeing it. Engine has done 3600 hours so may be worth a recon replacement if I have to remove it. Hence a reasonable gamble to try this potion stuff to at least try and save my season and plan for Ring replacement next winter.
Click to expand...

Had never heard of Seafoam but having just Googled for info, I'd say give it a try.

We were lucky in that I had just started the engine to go into Viana do Castelo and when I opened the locker to get fenders out, smelled hot oil and then saw ZERO oil pressure (no audible alarm then). All the oil was under the engine and when I put another 5 litres in and started up, the pump-out handle flew up and out it came again. Managed to limp in by roping the handle down. Fortunately, all bearings were OK.
 
We were lucky in that I had just started the engine to go into Viana do Castelo and when I opened the locker to get fenders out, smelled hot oil and then saw ZERO oil pressure (no audible alarm then). All the oil was under the engine and when I put another 5 litres in and started up, the pump-out handle flew up and out it came again. Managed to limp in by roping the handle down. Fortunately, all bearings were OK.[/QUOTE]


So scary, seeing oil pouring out of the pump, you just know its serious. I suppose I was lucky in that reason for the run out was to check the stbd engine which I had stripped and replaced valves and overhauled head during the winter. Hence I had friend helming on the flybridge and was keeping an eye on the engine bay. Soon as we went FOT I got oil burning smoke where some oil escaped onto manifold so came off throttles and was able to put bucket under pump as soon as it started to leak. Problem was I had an overheat in the stbd engine (air) and had turned it off so had to limp back but only 10mins. Oil pressure dropped but was amazed at amount of oil expelled.
Ironic that so much time spent on the stbd engine strip and the up to now ok port engine does this to me. Still thats boating apparently, just have to move forward with it.
Thanks for your input and help.
 
Kerosene (heating oil) works very well as an oil and carbon cleaner. Don't take the head off but remove the injector(s) and pour in. You will need to drain the oil out of the engine and turn the engine over without starting it, with the injector(s) out to make sure you clear the kerosene.
 
" I removed and replaced injectors "
"there was a pshhhs sound and a puff of atomised gas/spray ejected"

Sounds to me that one of your injectors is not seated correctly. Is the puff of spray inside the engine where you took off the rocker cover?

Did you replace the copper washers under the injector, or have you ended up with an extra washer, the old one still being down the hole?
 
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