Offshore flares for channel crossing?

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knewboater

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Does one really need offshore pack of flares for channel crossing? If so where are the best prices for flares only ? already have the container (and old flares)! Please.
Genuine request this, why will a coastal pack not be sufficient enough?be interested to hear what others buy for a trip.
 
Which bit of the channel?

Dover -> Calais and you can see land at all times
Once you move west wards then you are out of sight of land for a reasonable time (in a saily boat anyway) ... but traffic is (or can be) quite heavy - so you're not having to summon help from a long way off ..
My first channel crossing was with coastal pack flares, and some inshore ones ... which is just what we keep on the boat. It was nice to have a guest crew who brought a liferaft though ... glad we didn't need it!!
 
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Does one really need offshore pack of flares for channel crossing

[/ QUOTE ] I can't say I have ever found them necessary. The club member whose boat sank in midchannel found an orange smoke very useful though. Had that mishap been at night he would probably have found some flares handy.
 
Thanks for your replies, I have a liferaft and carry flares but it just seems that a couple of red handheld 2 parachute and a white one is enough, I have done various crossings of the channel. I reckpn a lot of people just take a few not a full pack.
 
I only ever carried the coastal pack in the Channel since I was only going from coast to coast! Then again, I never needed to make a distress call. You ought to check the legal situation as in recent threads it has been said that the Frogs can give stiff fines for wrong flares, paperwork, etc.
 
There is no law which says you need to carry a liferaft, or spare clothing, or a vhf. Check out offshore rules for what is recommended (that's why it's called a RORC flare pack?), then make a judgement.

FWIW I carry the lot: having heard many accounts of flares not being seen there is no "minimum" quantity IMO
 
There is a constant 'tension' between those who hope it will never happen to them, so money wasted on survival gear is better spent in the pub ( note that I do not call it 'safety gear' ).... and those who are fully determined that, if it ever does happen to them ( again? ), their family and guests on board have as good a chance of getting away with it as is practicable. In my book, that's called 'responsibility', and it's what one's crew and guests hope their exalted skipper is good at.

It's between 'the minimum I can get away with below which my conscience keeps me awake' and 'I've listened carefully to competent advice from the RNLI, the RORC, and my pet sea school principal.... and I've judged that *this* stuff is appropriate to my sailing.'

Your responsibility - your call.
 
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It's between 'the minimum I can get away with below which my conscience keeps me awake' and 'I've listened carefully to competent advice from the RNLI, the RORC, and my pet sea school principal.... and I've judged that *this* stuff is appropriate to my sailing.'

[/ QUOTE ]So you are prepared to accept the official requirement without question? Fair enough, but it seems to me that flares are far more important to vessels that frequent particular types of waterway and which don't carry a full complement of electronic distress alerts such as GPS EPIRBS. Frankly, a full set of flares is more use to you in the Solent on bank holiday weekend than a Personal EPIRB on every person on board but when you are sailing in waters where you are seldom in sight of another vessel (and if you were, they'd take you for a fireworks party if you let off flares) then EPIRBS and distress calls on VHF are far more important than messing about with flares, setting fire to you and your boat, and burning everyone around (which seems to be a pretty common outcome of using flares). For the record, I do carry the full complement but I'm not sure that they are of much use other than to ensure that I comply if stopped and required to show my flares.
 
Yes, you're quite right, sorry bilbobaggins /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Check out offshore rules for what is recommended (that's why it's called a RORC flare pack?), then make a judgement.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's regretted if my post seems ambiguous, and leads a reader to a wrong understanding of what was meant. I'll try harder to be clearer.

Both Damo and I, I believe, are saying much the same thing, which is to emphasise the skipper's 'judgement' part in all this. I also believe that organisations with a view to express - such as the RYA, RNLI, MCA, RORC, etc - are each on record as encouraging informed good judgement. There may be 'Rules' elsewhere, but here we seem to be strongly and historically in favour of self-regulation_with_responsibility.

The Royal Ocean Racing Club, if I may draw on their published material, together with the Offshore Racing Congress and the International Sailing Federation publish guidelines for skippers and participants in Offshore Races, and the management of that aspect of sailing They have chosen to make their prescriptions mandatory for Racers in their events.... hence The 'Rules'. The RNLI, RYA HMCH, etc. publish guidance material similarly based on the deep experience of people who 'really know their onions'.

These Rules and Prescriptions are compiled and wrangled over by committees composed of hugely-experienced yachtsmen, and a lot more make input, so what they settle on is a very sound set of *recommendations* which we can all draw on freely and prudently. Here's a recent, relevant example....;)

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It was concluded that damages in mainsail (usually due to too few reefs) and seasickness were dominant factor on retiring boats. It was also agreed that the increased crew training required in these Cat 2 races has well contributed to reduce accidents and emergency calls for assistance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please note the comments below from the start of the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations....

[ QUOTE ]
1.02 Responsibility of Person in Charge

1.02.1 The safety of a yacht and her crew is the sole and inescapable responsibility of the Person in Charge who must do his best to ensure that the yacht is fully found, thoroughly seaworthy and manned by an experienced crew who have undergone appropriate training and are physically fit to face bad weather. He must be satisfied as to the soundness of hull, spars, rigging, sails and all gear. He must ensure that all safety equipment is properly maintained and stowed and that the crew know where it is kept and how it is to be used.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is room for exchange of view on how such 'guidance' may prudently be interpreted, for a particular boat and sailing environment, on forums such as this - and comparative 'newbies' frequently ask for guidance so their judgement gets the benefit of the input of deeply experienced people on here.

However, not every opinion expressed on here is of equal worth on the water.....



/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
"However, not every opinion expressed on here is of equal worth on the water....."

Nice one - that should be in capital letters on the main forums page /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Thanks bilbobaggins your definitive answer is appreciated, the reason for my post was to try and understand how these safety guidlines are set and the answers I have had have been useful. I will be replacing my offshore pack in full, maybe they will fend off problems on my trip to the Brest area later on in the season.
 
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