Officious jobsworthy from the MCA - our ensign

[bbg]

You could write asking for a clarification. State that he threatened to fine you for flying a flag at "half mast". Complain that you considered his manner abrupt and even rude, given that you believed that you were flying the ensign properly. Do not say, in your letter, exactly how you were flying it, just that you believed you were flying it properly.

However, you want to make sure you comply with any rules regarding the flying of the ensign, so would they be kind enough to point you to the relevant statutes and regulations (in particular the statue or regulation under which Mr Jobsworth threatened to fine you), and you would appreciate receiving a copy of the relevant extracts.

And once again, to make the point, you found his manner and attitude completely inappropriate for such a distinguished agency as the MCA.

 

[Jamesuk]

Must be a former NAVY man!

 

[MrCramp]

but I would still be disinclined to take matters any further. Its always a good rule not to ask a question unless you are prepared to acceot the answer, and this bureaucrat may yet come up with some obscure act of parliament which requires you to drop the ensign and f*rt three times in the general direction of the French on that particular day every year.

If we don't all take a stand we will never eradicate these jobsworths!!

 

[davebray]

The officious jobsworthy told him that we must take our ensign down immediately as we are flying it incorrectly; it should only be flown at 'half-mast' if there is a royal death or some other thing of equal importance.


jelly

For me "some other thing of equal importance" would be my breakfast bacon sarnie!!

 

[DJE]

Yes, exactly - he was rather hypocritical, because after asking us to take our ensign down, he forgot to fine us for not flying one at all during the hours of daylight!

I rather like the sound of inviting him onboard. Perhaps a YM feature...?

But yes, I now have said MCA man's name, and shall be contacting the MCA. Question is, do I complain or do I set him up with an invite onboard??

Invite him back and set him up by all means but don't bring the ferry into it. It sounds like they've had their share.

 

[Goldie]

If he was a consular officer or holds Her Majesties Commission he may confiscate and report the wearing Of a Union Flag, or an un-warranted Blue or White.

As the holder of one of Her Majesties' Commissions, I feel a whole new pastime coming on - I certainly shouldn't have to buy any more ensigns

 

[rjp]

it should only be flown at 'half-mast' if there is a royal death or some other thing of equal importance.

jelly

You could just have been in mourning for the death of democracy and common sense. But I suppose he wouldn't class that as important enough!

John

 

[binch]

ensign

I was once a Queen's Harbour Master (QHM) and officially responsible for contraventions of all sorts aboard the vessels in the port.
I have had to board, (or give orders for the boarding) of very few vessels on anything to do with ensigns. I'll say why later.
From the description given by the originator of the thread, I can see no cause for complaint.
Ships and boats come in all shapes and sizes and provided the master makes a reasonable attempt to indicate nationality, my view is that honour is satisfied.
Now what about the only one I remember who irritated me so much that I decided to do something about it..
His red ensign was the wrong shape (i.e. it was 3:2 instead of 2:1 Normally not a problem.)
It was torn and the fly was in ribbons.
It was filthy dirty, looking as if it had been used as a doormat in the engine room.
It was hoisted at the dip.
It was a by-our-lady disgrace.
I got my signalman to take him a new ensign and teach him how to display it.
That was at Gibraltar.
Now, was I being an irritating jobsworth?
Was I? At the time I thought not, but noting the tone of some contributors, perhaps I shouldn't have bothered.
Incidentally, if he had been displaying the wrong ensign, he would have had to be taken before the magistrate. I could not have collected the cash.
If however, he was in a foreign port and a RN warship took action, THEN the wrongdoer could have been fined on the spot.
But these things happen once or twice in a lifetime.
De minimis non curat lex.

 

[jellyellie]

@binch, that sounds more than reasonable - the fact that you provided him with a new ensign and showed him how to display it, rather than flash your officious badge and demand it be taken down for a reason that you later retract after making up your own bit of law. Like I said, I would never mind somebody giving me good advice.

@bbg good words - I am about to draft a letter to the MCA, asking for clarification and expressing my concern that the man's full attention was not given to the boat he was there to re-code.

@DJE I don't want to cause the ferry guys any more trouble than he has already given them (he made them perform a MOB manoeuvre at full-speed, the total opposite to their actual drill) but I feel that mentioning this is imperative to putting across the real danger this MCA representative is putting people in, and how incompetent he is.

So, does anybody have any decent contacts at the MCA?

 

[xxyyzz]

...if there is a royal death...

The royals are never around when you need them...

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Read TimBartlett's Posts To Get A Sense of Reaction

Let it go and enjoy your boat. You are not likely to change anything and it may just get you more angry, which is not fun. Just another stressed out Government Agency nut job. Only a revolution will change all this nonsense.

Mr Bartlett's posts are a good example of how nothing changes and from what I have read he tries hard.

 

[boatmike]

Now retired, but during my working life was responsible for getting a good number of commercial vessels and private yachts (big ones) through Lloyds certification and subsequently achieving an MCA safety certificate. Neither body were generally interested in such things as ensigns. Every now and again however with any organisation you get a pranny. The way to deal with it is to ask for written documentary evidence of the particular rule to be complied with. Usually they can't find it. I have to say that the majority of guys I dealt with were qualified Naval Architects and only interested in complying with documented codes applying to the particular class of vessel being checked. Sometimes we had disagreements but either he/she or I/we would happily look up the particular code, paragraph by paragraph to resolve any differences. There were rarely problems that could not be resolved that way. Now and again though you get a surveyor doing re-certification of an existing vessel who is an officious pillock. The way to deal with these is to say "show me the rule and demonstrate how I am in error" If he can't do that ask him to refer the issue to a "senior surveyor" or please go away and do something useful. No surveyor has any right to fine you. Especially on an issue of etiquette that as far as I know is for port authorities like harbourmasters to deal with as Binch says. Unfortunately not all the monkeys are in the zoo and I agree with the original post. My own Ensign is attached to the rear of my radar arch about half way up. Is that at half mast? I think not!

 

[jellyellie]

Let it go and enjoy your boat. You are not likely to change anything and it may just get you more angry, which is not fun. Just another stressed out Government Agency nut job. Only a revolution will change all this nonsense.

Mr Bartlett's posts are a good example of how nothing changes and from what I have read he tries hard.

Not sure what TimBartlett has to do with this thread, as he hasn't posted in it.

I'm not the sort of person to let this kind of thing go - God knows what else this person has done/will do whilst he is meant to be overseeing serious safety issues, if he can be this distracted by an ensign.

If we all let little things go, then bigger things will creep in and we'll start turning a blind eye to those as well.

In New York many decades ago, murder rates on the Metro system were drastically reduced by concentrating on the little things - like people jumping over ticket barriers, and graffiti on trains (Tipping Point, Malcolm Gladwell).

So if we all fight a little battle, the war will start to swing our way. And we have no right to bitch about stuff if we then don't do anything to try and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Come on, I'm 19, you're supposed to be doing this stuff to ensure my generation doesn't have to go through it all!

 

[seanfoster]

Let it go and enjoy your boat. You are not likely to change anything and it may just get you more angry, which is not fun. Just another stressed out Government Agency nut job. Only a revolution will change all this nonsense.

Mr Bartlett's posts are a good example of how nothing changes and from what I have read he tries hard.

Absolutely no way! You can't let these people get away with this sort of behavior, for one thing if the OP was not in the wrong (which is most likely) the officious little **** needs to be 'educated' on how to do his job properly.

And for another, he may continue to demonstrate his jumped up authority on other yachties (and I will be in Royal Clarence over the summer too!).

 

[cliffordpope]

"Half mast" means one flag-width below the top of the mast - it doesn't mean half way up the mast.

 

[qweetcher]

OK, next instalment:

The ferry had left its berth for a while to do some tests related to her coding, so I put the ensign back up the backstay and walked up to the marina facilities to brush my teeth.

LOL

 

[DogWatch]

Tragedy: When the feeling's gone and you can't go on,
It's tragedy. When the morning cries and you don't know why,
It's hard to bear. With no one to love you, you're goin' nowhere.
Tragedy: When you lose control and you got no soul,
It's tragedy. When the morning cries and you don't know why,
It's hard to bear.
With no one beside you, you're goin' nowhere.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I'm not the sort of person to let this kind of thing go - Come on, I'm 19,

I guess we were all like you at your age but as we grow older and wiser we learn to focus on the few things that matter rather than tilting at windmills. I know that sounds patronising and it isnt meant to be so, but for all the huffing and puffing on this forum I reckon 95% of the members would do absolutely nothing in response to your experience. Because doing anything wouldnt achive anything anyway.

Hang loose as we used to say when I was 19.

P.S. Unwise to say it now as so many bits do hang loose!

 

[nickd]

way to go jellyellie
I totally support you
ask him what its got to do with him, and ask to see the law.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[Kukri]

My father used to say that when he was 19 to fly an ensign at all in home waters was considered "tripperish" (lovely phrase). That would have been in 1922.