Gludy
Active member
Why .. .does it never happen to a raggie? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ocean Deep Shocks
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
Major Catastrophe
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Why .. .does it never happen to a raggie?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cos they have a windmill mounted on the pushpit, oil lamps and applications goose grease to keep them warm so don't need to plug into the national grid.
Why .. .does it never happen to a raggie?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cos they have a windmill mounted on the pushpit, oil lamps and applications goose grease to keep them warm so don't need to plug into the national grid.
BOATKID
New member
well well and how many people were quick to blame trader. a bit unfair methinks. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
tome
New member
Re: Pot kettle black
[ QUOTE ]
Why .. .does it never happen to a raggie?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah yes, but I was driving a stinkie at the time!
Raggies tend to have the power lead into a socket in the cockpit, or close by. So it's obviously still plugged in, innit? Mobos have theirs out of sight near or on the transom, so invisible from both flybridge or inside...
I've seen some very amusing incidents over the years, can't recall any raggie ones offhand
[ QUOTE ]
Why .. .does it never happen to a raggie?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah yes, but I was driving a stinkie at the time!
Raggies tend to have the power lead into a socket in the cockpit, or close by. So it's obviously still plugged in, innit? Mobos have theirs out of sight near or on the transom, so invisible from both flybridge or inside...
I've seen some very amusing incidents over the years, can't recall any raggie ones offhand
Gludy
Active member
Re: Pot kettle black
I am only glad that I did not do the change over until fairly recently - as it will have eaten through anodes all summer had I done it straight away.
I am only glad that I did not do the change over until fairly recently - as it will have eaten through anodes all summer had I done it straight away.
Bru
Well-known member
Gotta admit I'm still mystified by the explanation of the problem given by Trader
The shore power connection would normally be 3 pin with live, neutral and earth at 240v nominal. On a metal cased connector the case would normally be connected to the earth pin anyway
If the supply is standard 240v AC I can't figure any way that you could mis-wire the inlet socket without either getting no power at all or tripping the shore supply (assuming it is correctly protected). More to the point, unless you've got a centre tapped isolation transformer in the circuit you can't split 240v in the way that's been suggested (eg; just by mis-wiring)
However, one thought has occurred - is the incoming supply 0/120/240v plus earth (eg; four wire)? I have no idea whether such a configuration is ever used in marinas and boat yards nor any info on how they would be configured if so but it would offer a sensible explanation of the problem.
The shore power connection would normally be 3 pin with live, neutral and earth at 240v nominal. On a metal cased connector the case would normally be connected to the earth pin anyway
If the supply is standard 240v AC I can't figure any way that you could mis-wire the inlet socket without either getting no power at all or tripping the shore supply (assuming it is correctly protected). More to the point, unless you've got a centre tapped isolation transformer in the circuit you can't split 240v in the way that's been suggested (eg; just by mis-wiring)
However, one thought has occurred - is the incoming supply 0/120/240v plus earth (eg; four wire)? I have no idea whether such a configuration is ever used in marinas and boat yards nor any info on how they would be configured if so but it would offer a sensible explanation of the problem.
Gludy
Active member
I still need to nail this down.
I pulled the power supply cord but occasionaly after that the lead would seem not to connect. U put up with that all summer and then decided to deal with it so I threw away the old cord and a friend put on a plastic female to a new plastci male at the boat. That cured the occasional cutting of power problem.
Later the cleaned up the old metal female socket which has 3 holes. took the plastic one off and put the original metal one back placing the wires into the three holes with the earth into thge earth hole as it were.
I am now told by someone that the metal casing should in any event be connected to that third hole so in effect the third wire goes to both.
It has not been configured with my wiring too long but it was only when touching the stern gear when out of the water recently that I had the shocks.
I reported the 105/110 volts to trader who ended up telling me that was coming from the ground - in fact when they connected other boats up today to their leads they got just a few volts from the ground - so they looked at my wiring and found the problem.
They say that the battery charger and inverter ebing their mean that my wiring left the arth floating and so anything connected to the anodic circuit would have the potential with the ground. Does that make sense?
I pulled the power supply cord but occasionaly after that the lead would seem not to connect. U put up with that all summer and then decided to deal with it so I threw away the old cord and a friend put on a plastic female to a new plastci male at the boat. That cured the occasional cutting of power problem.
Later the cleaned up the old metal female socket which has 3 holes. took the plastic one off and put the original metal one back placing the wires into the three holes with the earth into thge earth hole as it were.
I am now told by someone that the metal casing should in any event be connected to that third hole so in effect the third wire goes to both.
It has not been configured with my wiring too long but it was only when touching the stern gear when out of the water recently that I had the shocks.
I reported the 105/110 volts to trader who ended up telling me that was coming from the ground - in fact when they connected other boats up today to their leads they got just a few volts from the ground - so they looked at my wiring and found the problem.
They say that the battery charger and inverter ebing their mean that my wiring left the arth floating and so anything connected to the anodic circuit would have the potential with the ground. Does that make sense?
Bru
Well-known member
Aha!
If I've got it right then what you;d ended up with was no connection between the earth circuit of the boat and the supply earth ie; your earth was floating (as Trader say)
I think you were probably getting a capacitive charge on the boats earth circuit (probably, as suggested, generated by kit such as inverters and/or battery chargers which might well have meaty transformers in them). When you bridged the earth circuit to ground by touching the steelwork you got a brief shock as the charge on the floating earth discharged through you!
When you attached a voltmeter between ground and the steelwork you got a significant voltage. It's apparent consistency at 110v was probably down to where the charge was coming from (something along the lines of a centre tapped transformer perhaps). Due to the very high resistance of the voltmeter the charge would discharge very slowly. If you'd monitored it over a period of time you'd probably have seen the voltage slowly fall.
In itself, the static charge was probably not all that dangerous (although I wouldn't want to put that to the test myself! Not with my iffy ticker anyway!!!). However, the floating earth could have been seriously bad news!
I fink we've finally got to the bottom of the problem!!!! The only remainign puzzle is why they told you that they already knew about the problem and it had been happening for years???? Most odd!
PS. Yes, I too think that the metal casing of the socket should be connected to the earth pin
If I've got it right then what you;d ended up with was no connection between the earth circuit of the boat and the supply earth ie; your earth was floating (as Trader say)
I think you were probably getting a capacitive charge on the boats earth circuit (probably, as suggested, generated by kit such as inverters and/or battery chargers which might well have meaty transformers in them). When you bridged the earth circuit to ground by touching the steelwork you got a brief shock as the charge on the floating earth discharged through you!
When you attached a voltmeter between ground and the steelwork you got a significant voltage. It's apparent consistency at 110v was probably down to where the charge was coming from (something along the lines of a centre tapped transformer perhaps). Due to the very high resistance of the voltmeter the charge would discharge very slowly. If you'd monitored it over a period of time you'd probably have seen the voltage slowly fall.
In itself, the static charge was probably not all that dangerous (although I wouldn't want to put that to the test myself! Not with my iffy ticker anyway!!!). However, the floating earth could have been seriously bad news!
I fink we've finally got to the bottom of the problem!!!! The only remainign puzzle is why they told you that they already knew about the problem and it had been happening for years???? Most odd!
PS. Yes, I too think that the metal casing of the socket should be connected to the earth pin
Gludy
Active member
Yes - early on when the told me about the earth being live, after I had told them about the 110 volts, gave a bum steer as it were. This concentrated the problem on what they had stated rather than the boat.
What thjey did this morning was to connect another boat to power and then measure and it was just 3 to 5 volts, nothing like my 100 volts. They then looked at my boat for the furst time and found the problem.
In any event I am pleased the problem was found and I am only glad it was not wired that way for too long.
What thjey did this morning was to connect another boat to power and then measure and it was just 3 to 5 volts, nothing like my 100 volts. They then looked at my boat for the furst time and found the problem.
In any event I am pleased the problem was found and I am only glad it was not wired that way for too long.
Major Catastrophe
New member
Paul, are you sure you are cut out for this boating lark? My forum name is up for sale, you know. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gludy
Active member
I really do not think I should be asked to buy your forum name - by any standards its well desrved by me and not you! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bru
Well-known member
But wouldn't you need to be NearlyMajorCatastrophe? Or MajorCatastropheAvoided perhaps?
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/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Gludy
Active member
yes - thats better.
I spoke to a Trader owner today. He took two years to get his new boat sorted after it spending two winters with Trader but now its sorted loves the boat and would not swop it for any other. So I think at the end of this, I will be happy with the boat but , of course, I will swop it for another ... the Marlow 72 LR, which shall be, without any doubt my final boat..... absolute promise.
In this avoided problem I did get good advice - there was a floating earth - it was dangerous - but in the end no harm done.
I nstarted then thread simply asking if boats out of the water should be grounded - it sort of developed after i took the voltage reading and after Trader told me it was the earth leak.
I spoke to a Trader owner today. He took two years to get his new boat sorted after it spending two winters with Trader but now its sorted loves the boat and would not swop it for any other. So I think at the end of this, I will be happy with the boat but , of course, I will swop it for another ... the Marlow 72 LR, which shall be, without any doubt my final boat..... absolute promise.
In this avoided problem I did get good advice - there was a floating earth - it was dangerous - but in the end no harm done.
I nstarted then thread simply asking if boats out of the water should be grounded - it sort of developed after i took the voltage reading and after Trader told me it was the earth leak.
BrendanS
Well-known member
This one self inflicted though?
Gludy
Active member
Yes I have to agree - self inflicted this time.
That actually makes it worse. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
That actually makes it worse. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
tcm
...
ooh no, I find other people busting things is far less satisfying than blowing up or breaking stuff yourself. I mean, othr people busting things means you merely have a finacially bad time. Whereas busting stuff yourself means you gain real useful experience,( as well as the financially bad time).
My favourite boat-busting moment last season for example was when i decided to unscrew the body of an electric bog motor."Er, this could get ugly..." commented the little ozzie crew chap - and so it did,all the brushy things and armateur wotsits interestingly twanging about with no chance whatsoever of re-assembling them, ever.
But hurrah eh?- cos at last i know not to do that again AND it shortened the time to a fix too! - I immediately chuckd all the parts away and went and bought a new assembly/motor thingy from the shop. Much better than the old crummy one, which was conclusively busted anyway, or it was after i'd had a go at it anyway, same thing really.
There's a safety issue as well: at any moment the old unit which worked ok *could* have just broken down unexpectedly- but I wisely prevented that from happening, by breaking it.
My favourite boat-busting moment last season for example was when i decided to unscrew the body of an electric bog motor."Er, this could get ugly..." commented the little ozzie crew chap - and so it did,all the brushy things and armateur wotsits interestingly twanging about with no chance whatsoever of re-assembling them, ever.
But hurrah eh?- cos at last i know not to do that again AND it shortened the time to a fix too! - I immediately chuckd all the parts away and went and bought a new assembly/motor thingy from the shop. Much better than the old crummy one, which was conclusively busted anyway, or it was after i'd had a go at it anyway, same thing really.
There's a safety issue as well: at any moment the old unit which worked ok *could* have just broken down unexpectedly- but I wisely prevented that from happening, by breaking it.
Sixpence
Active member
There are those that break it
There are those that fix it
There are those that break and can also fix it
There are those that break it and THINK they can fix it
and there are those that rescue them /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
if it aint broke , don't fix it , if it is broke , ask for help !!
There are those that fix it
There are those that break and can also fix it
There are those that break it and THINK they can fix it
and there are those that rescue them /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
if it aint broke , don't fix it , if it is broke , ask for help !!
tcm
...
Nonsense. I mean, how does one become one of "those who fix" things, hm? Expensively, that's how...
andyball
New member
so if I read all this correctly....... You changed a shorepower cable plug, and connected the three wires, to the three pins, failing to make a connection to the metal case of the connector ?
and that alone, left your boat earth, totally floating from the supply earth?
Sure the boat wiring has a connection to the third pin?,
and that alone, left your boat earth, totally floating from the supply earth?
Sure the boat wiring has a connection to the third pin?,
Gludy
Active member
Yes - what i did was put the three wires in the 3 holes. The postive and negative were OK and I thought the earth went into the earth hole - it apprantly should have gone to the metal casing instead!! Mind you I am told there should be a link between the earth hole and the metal casing anway - so I am still not clear on this.
In fact i think all i did was do it as the orignal wiring anway.
In fact i think all i did was do it as the orignal wiring anway.
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