Observations About The Violence of Setting Off Flares

[Baddox]

Tonight I have learned that if I use flares on a boat they MUST be pointed away from any one and anything, aimed downwind, kept well away from anything remotely flammable and dropped in the sea as soon as they finish. I’ll also be adding a pair of goggles to the heatproof gloves already taped to my box of flares.

I’ve set off some out-of-date flares in the back garden, not parachute type just the smoke and pinpoint red ones so as not to have the RNLI wreck their nearest boat by motoring through the trees and flower beds to the rescue.

I thought it would be a good learning experience to try them and was pleased I did.

Firstly they take a good thump on the base to activate; striking them against a brick wall helped in one case. Next surprise was the very loud bang as they detonated and ignited.

The smoke flares, once alight, were fairly sedate warping their plastic casing a little and stinking of burnt coffee.

The real violence came when lighting the red pinpoint handheld. As before they started with a loud bang then went straight into a furnace of brilliant red light, too bright to look at and sending a shower of debris out as they burned. After burning out, the metal cylinder housing the flare continued to glow red hot for a minute after. The second flare’s primer detonated without managing to ignite the flare itself giving a three out of four sucess rate.

 

[LittleSister]

Tonight I have learned that if I use flares on a boat they MUST be pointed away from any one and anything, aimed downwind, kept well away from anything remotely flammable and dropped in the sea as soon as they finish. I’ll also be adding a pair of goggles to the heatproof gloves already taped to my box of flares.

The second flare’s primer detonated without managing to ignite the flare itself giving a three out of four sucess rate.

Good plan re the gloves, goggles etc.

On the other hand, I've on various occasions set off a total of about 10 to 12 hand held flares and one parachute flare; of various manufacturers; red, whites and orange smokes; and from 4 to 22 years out of date. All worked fine, though the very old red flares were pinkish rather than red.

From that, admittedly limited experience, I would definitely hold flares overboard on the downwind side, wear gloves (and possibly goggles) if they were available, but wouldn't hesitate to let them off, even if I had no gloves (or goggles), if I was in trouble.

I would also rather have some not too out of date flares aboard (unless I was going to France!), as back up to in date ones (having heard tales of friends of friends who let off a series of flares, only the very last one of which was noticed, and having gained confidence that even out of date they will almost always work).

I'd be interested to know the make of flares tht only 3 out of 4 worked.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Welder's gloves are good - usually cheap and a decent length. You really want something that goes a fair way up the wrist. The point about having to bash something really hard to set them off is a good one. I can remember the struggle to find something in a Contessa 26 cockpit when the examiner made me go through firing a dummy flare. The big problem is that you tend to lean down and bang it on the cockpit seat while standing in the cockpit - that means it's pointed straight at you. I much prefer the pull ring variant as you can hold it at arm's length more easily and look away as well - you can get your other hand back on a handhold very quickly too.

I can't imagine setting off anything except smoke or dye from a liferaft unless it was pretty calm in which case a maybe a parachute flare. How you could safely hold a handheld red in a liferaft bouncing around in a rough without incurring 1st degree burns I don't know.

 

[prv]

The point about having to bash something really hard to set them off is a good one.

Which manufacturers still make ones you have to bang? I thought they were all either ring-pulls or levers these days, for much the reason you state.

Pete

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Which manufacturers still make ones you have to bang? I thought they were all either ring-pulls or levers these days, for much the reason you state.

Pete

I'm not sure anyone does to be honest - I'm just assuming some are still around based on Baddox's post. I haven't seen any for a while thinking about it.

 

[MrCramp]

These welders gloves are very good quality, at a very very good price. I use them for all sorts of jobs.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/welders-gauntlets/15601

 

[prv]

These welders gloves are very good quality, at a very very good price. I use them for all sorts of jobs.

Me too - one pair in the workshop for welding, and another pair in the kitchen as oven gloves

The ones in the emergency locker on the boat are rigger's gloves though, with leather palms and fingers. This is because they double up for handling a hi-line in the very unlikely event of working with a helicopter. The Bosun's gloves were worn nearly through when we had to have someone winched off Stavros by the Salvamento Maritimo.

Pete

 

[snooks]

Incase any one does have ther desire to hold them up like the statue of Liberty, ie vertical, resist the urge. Instead hold them at a 45 degree angle either facing up or better still facing down away from you with your back to the wind. If doing it on a boat, make sure you hold them over the leeward side. That way any burning stuff doesn't go anywhere near you or the boat.

 

[Jamesuk]

When handling flares it is best to do it outside.

 

[LittleSister]

As well as gloves to keep with your flares, you might want to consider a headband, beads and tie-dye T-shirt.

 

[Seajet]

Do remember these things are a bit like a crude flintlock gun, can be highly dangerous to the user or anyone around; though they might just save one's family if in trouble, and they don't rely on batteries...

The poor chap correctly demonstrating a white hand flare had the thing fire through the base and fill his stomach with burning phosphorus, horrible.

That flare type was recalled long ago.

In another incident at a sailing event, someone fired a flare which went horizontally and hit someone on another boat, with equally horrid results.

I've fired off a few out of date flares ( well inland on Nov 5th, not this last one ) and it's indeed quite violent, messy and frankly scary - for the record, NATO twin flare / smoke jobs and Miniflares didn't do too well, with a few duds at only just OOD; maybe bad luck or operator error on my part ).

I do think there's a still place for flares however, but maybe we who might use them should all get training; if your club, Coastguard ( I think that has been scuppered by cutbacks ) or training centre offers such survival schemes, I'd recommend them !

 

[Deleted member 36384]

... flares however, but maybe we who might use them should all get training ...

Since I found out about that incident I have taken a slightly different view on flare training. I believe that folks should be trained how to use them but should never fire a flare except when required in an emergency. Dummy flares are available to learn how to operate the mechanism.

 

[prv]

Dummy flares are available to learn how to operate the mechanism.

Not sure that's particularly valuable though. Pushing a lever or pulling a string is not exactly something that requires practice. Finding out in advance is a good idea (my flares are Ikaros and they have instructions and videos online) but then also manipulating a dummy doesn't add much on top.

The value of practicing is in reducing the shock of the bangs and whooshes and heat and flames that surprise people who are subconsiously treating it like pressing a button on an electronic gadget. It would take a very high-tech training aid indeed to simulate that.

Pete

 

[LittleSister]

The poor chap correctly demonstrating a white hand flare had the thing fire through the base and fill his stomach with burning phosphorus, horrible.

That flare type was recalled long ago.

In another incident at a sailing event, someone fired a flare which went horizontally and hit someone on another boat, with equally horrid results.

Boats have blown up, but that doesn't stop us using them. The demonstration accident was horrific, but an amazingly rare event. And yes, of course, you don't fire them AT somebody.

Flares are potentially dangerous, but not they're not that dangerous. They have saved many lives, and carried and used with sensible care they are most unlikely to harm you. I hope people aren't put off carrying them.

 

[DownWest]

Not sure that's particularly valuable though. Pushing a lever or pulling a string is not exactly something that requires practice.
The value of practicing is in reducing the shock of the bangs and whooshes and heat and flames that surprise people who are subconsiously treating it like pressing a button on an electronic gadget. It would take a very high-tech training aid indeed to simulate that.

Pete

Bit like having to manually get the u/carriage down after the motor burned out approaching Southend. A routine item on the ground, quite different in the air. Nearly took my thumb off.

My flares are just out of date, might suit up and try one.

 

[Ric]

Hand held flares actually burn under water. Drop one overboard at night, and it makes a really nice display as it sinks. Not that I am advocating anybody do this deliberately, of course.

 

[LittleSister]

Hand held flares actually burn under water. Drop one overboard at night, and it makes a really nice display as it sinks. Not that I am advocating anybody do this deliberately, of course.

I was wondering only recently how unsafe firing old parachute flares into the water might be. One would have to be certain they weren't going to bounce back or ricochet off the surface. (Not that I'd advocate it being done.)

Talking about flares burning under water reminds me of an image from an old film (Hitchcock, perhaps?), where a group of people are in a lifeboat, and one ends up shooting another with a Verey pistol. He falls into the water with flames coming out of his stomach, which continue as he sinks into the water.

 

[LittleSister]

One regular way of disposing of flares is to let them off in a very crowded street (Great pics, by the way)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/galler...arade-in-pictures#/?picture=381488609&index=4

 

[GrahamM376]

One regular way of disposing of flares is to let them off in a very crowded street

Or, like some idiot did, fire one at a spectator at a football match! That's why they're now classed as a firearm in Portugal and certificate from police needed to buy them.

 

[PabloPicasso]

It wasn't me that set off 4 TEPs in the garden on halloween. 2 orange smpokes and 2 red flares all ood in 2004 all fired. Setting off red flares would have been an interesting experience (if it had been me -which it wasn't)

We all need to set off flares if we might intend to use them in an emergency. Thats not the time to be reading the small print and nothing substitutes for experience