Not Classic-Traditional is better

[ianwright]

I’m giving up on “Classics”, not the boats, the term, it’s far too imprecise and causes argument.
No, from now on I shall use “Traditional”. You know what I mean, a boat of good design with a suitable rig for the hull and built of wood by craftsmen without the use of epoxy.
They might also be “classic” to many, but in order to maintain standards it recognises that really truly boats are built of solid wood, either carvel or clinker, and anything else is, well frankly, less. Not bad or wrong or unsuitable, just less.
Think about it, you know it’s true.

IanW


Vertue 203, Patience

 

[Shanty]

Think your definition is a bit broad. You exclude epoxy - why not exclude other structural use of adhesives - after all they date from WWII onwards & thus are not "traditional".
There is a case for excluding carvel construction as being a compapartively recent development, compared with clinker construction.
Should we allow metal fastenings - surely "traditional " craft use treenails?

In fact, the only safe definition is one that requires the hull to be constructed either from a single tree trunk, hollowed out by hand, or from a number of smaller trunks or branches lashed together with natural products. The use of wind power is clearly far too modern a development to be accepted, and propulsion must be by tide and/or current, assisted by the occupants using branches to pole or paddle the craft.

The point that I suspect I am trying to make is that clear-cut categories have more to do with the categoriser's prejudices than with anything that happens in real life. The development of boats is an evolutionary process, and, with a few exceptions, each new design draws a great deal from preceeding designs.

 

[halcyon]

So a fibre glass Falmouth working boat by Martin Heard is not traditional/classic, but a wooden one built by his father to the same hull profile is classic or traditional. Both boats race in the same class, do the same job each winter, have the same rig, and at 10 foot are identical. The only differance is one is built of modern material 50 years ago, the other is built of modern material to-day.

Would not classical be a better discription, not the material, but the overall appearance of the boat.

Brian

 

[Johnjo]

Clinker built boats.
I have had a couple in my time, would not discribe them as classic
or traditional,
More like a pain in the arse!!!!!
apologies if this offends any clinker owners.

mike

 

[clyst]

Nice one Ian!! no one can resist this ol' chestnut . Reading and re reading your thread I'm inclined to agree with you . So in future I have a traditional yacht ----------until someone tells me different ! mmmmm OR is it a classic?? HELP!!
Regards

Terry

 

[Guest]

It's a common problem, and we sympathise with you. There always have been people who could not adapt to progress, who felt left behind and who prefered to live in the past. Usually, but not always, they are older men. They listen to the Home Service on the wireless, they know that the children of today arent well behaved , they believe in flannel next to the skin in winter, and so on.

No cure for the problem. They just have to be left talking to like minded old souls, sat on a park bench, unpicking rope to make baggywrinkle.

Meantime, the rest of the world moves on.

 

[Magic_Sailor]

Yes, you definetly played for the Arsenal

To make such a daft assertion. Or are you being contentious for the sake of it?

It must have been heading the ball so often that has caused this - it's supposed to kill off brain cells isn't it.

Magic

 

[ianwright]

Troll,,,,,but true.

" are you being contentious for the sake of it?"

Yes I am, but I still mean it. Real wooden boats are the real thing. Other are,however good, somehow less.
Why else would boats in other materials sport 'wooden' decks and trim. Why do many grp hulls have fake clinker planks? It's because the builders know that the owners hanker for a litte of the real thing.
Any damn fool can make something cheaper and worse, grp just makes it easy and even cheaper.

IanW


Vertue 203, Patience

 

[LadyInBed]

Coracles are traditional, they certainly aren't classic.

 

[clyst]

Re: Troll,,,,,but true.

Absolutely right Ian ol'chap. I challange any Grp owner to post why he chooses fake layed decks and other fancy bits wafer thin bits of decorative wood. After all you can always have non slip stick on patches and moulded Grp. Well come on all you ""pretend"" wood men educate us proper boat folk.

I'm keeping my head down !!

Regards

Terry

 

[Guest]

Wooden boat SNOBS R US !

Surely how a boat ‘looks’ is only one small part of the love of sailing.

The Cutty Sark is a lovely boat to look at but that’s all you can do to it.

As mentioned , man uses whatever is available at the time. Unfortunately, half of Britain was deforested to satisfy the need from which we have never recovered. I find it obscene that boats are still made and restored from hardwoods that mostly come from unsustainable sources but most wooden boat owners never want to talk about this do they ? Surely a mixture of softwoods and modern resins would maintain the wonderful stock of wooden boats that the British Isles enjoy.

You are no sailor Sir ! You are just a boatowner ! Damn you and all you’re kind to continuous worm infestation and that’s not meant for you’re boats.

 

[halcyon]

Re: Troll,,,,,but true.

Can you explain why wooden boat owners spend months filling, sanding and painting to make there hull look like grp?

Brian

 

[clyst]

Re: Troll,,,,,but true.

Do I assume kind sir that you cannot answer my question?? mmmmmmmm you've got a point there and i must admit that my hull has many times been mistaken for Grp !!! but I put it down to pride and dilligent maintenance certainly not to imitate "frozen snot" if you pardon the description .(its after 9PM)

CHeers ol' chap

Terry

 

[ianwright]

Meantime, the rest of the world moves on..........

Indeed it does, to the very highest of hi-tech cutting edge design and materials,,,,,,,
Have you SEEN what happens to end grain balsa when the water gets to it? We have multi-hulls drawn and sailed by the worlds leading experts that can't even reach the finish line, never mind win the race. Even the monos are helpless when the keel falls off,,,,,,, was there ever a real boat with a keel to hull bond so iffy that they could seperate WHEN NEW? Anyway the new breed of monohulls with their canting keels are no more than cats that sail with one hull under water and full of lead.
Move on world, leave me well behind, please.

IanW.

Vertue 203, Patience

 

[halcyon]

Re: Troll,,,,,but true.

Why lay a teak deck on grp, the same as wood boats lay them on ply decks.
Never realy concidered wood or plastic when buying a yacht, just it's looks and sailing ability.
Year ago we had a SCOD surveyed, it was going to cost twice the agreed price to make it sea worthy, so we were looking at Folkboats and any other wooden on the market. Then the Halcyon 27 came on the market, two trans-atlantics, a lot of work required, but very sweet lines, just fell in love with it, never thought what material it was made from.
Think it's sad that what a yacht is built from is more important than her lines and ability.

Brian

 

[clyst]

Re: Troll,,,,,but true.

Agree with your last sentence and Im the first to say that there are many wooden craft that have appauling lines and inability to sail anything but off the wind , but also there are equally as many (imho) grp craft with the same failings. Imho if a boat has good lines and the ability to sail well AND is wooden need i say more! At the end of the day I bet that if two yachts one grp one wood tied to a pontoon the wooden would be shown more interest by bystanders .Hence "classic Rallies" dont see many grp ones though .
The debate goes on -----Whats your views on fox hunting??----no lets not get involved in that one.

Cheers and a happy new year to you

Terry