North sea crossing, small boat dodging the big fellas.

connor_carson

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Hi all,
I'm in the planning phase of my first North Sea Crossing. (The boat is a Hurley 18). Great fun, lots of charts open on the floor, but a few niggling real world facts to consider, so I'm hoping for advice from you old hands out there...

I'm planning to hop down the east coast from Newcastle, then cross to Den Helder.
Problem: Looks like 3 major TSS to cross, can anyone advise on the best point to cross?

Then Entering the Ijsselmeer, proceeding to Amsterdam, and the Noordzeekanaal. Any problems for transiting with a small boat, or is it for larger commercial vessels only? - My max speed on o/b is about 4.5 knots!

Finally, proceeding south to Antwerpen, there looks like some major commercial traffic off the Hoek van Holland. What's the best point to cross this area? Looks kind of scary...

Finally, I'm looking for a decent pilot book for above, would you rate the Imray Cruising guide to the Netherlands, also the North France and Belgium Cruising Companion for the approaches to Antwerp via Westerschelde?

That lot should keep you all bust for a bit! Many thanks in advance for any and all advice (even if it's only "stay at home you idiot".)

Cheers, Connor C.
 

mirabriani

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Hm, 23 viewings and no replies
What did you put in the brackets on last line?

Ok I'll kick off by suggesting that with 41/2 knots on the engine an important part of your passage planning should be to work the tides.

Regards Briani
 

kandoma

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I can give you only first hand experience from Den Helder to the Nordzeekanal:

When I was doing this for the first time, we asked Huismann ( one of the first skippers entering in the first Withbread race around the world) how to this: be carefull and always keep to the right. This advice is still valid. No problem for a small boat. I wish you a good trip!

Peter
 

Hardley

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Plenty of 18 footers do this crossing, cross TSS as per regulations,assuming you will take shortest route over, will take 24 hous plus, for 24 hours you can ignor tides, they will even out over this time, just work them out for any time after 24 hours, make sure you have enough fuel for the passage over, plus some spare, spare battery or Power Pack will be handy.
Enjoy the trip,its well worth the effort.
 

ZuidWester

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Um

I could help with the last bit, but it sounds like the description of a dinosar:

Dinosaurs are thin at one end,
much, much thicker in the middle
and thin again at the other end.

The thick bit has dragons in it. 18 foot boat. You mean in summer with the tide. Take photos and post 'em online, but know what you're doing first.
Strikes me that night sailing might better be avoided. How many crew?
All these questions!
 

sailorman

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i would suggest that the best way to cross the Southern North Sea from say lowestoft to Den Helder with an !8 footer with o/b motor is by trailer with car + ferry.
are you prepaired to be @ sea for say 2 /3 days with very limited fuel & battery supplies?.
Although it may only be around 150 miles it still gets rough.
the Scheldt Estuary is very busy shipping wise + very strong tides, if you propose to visit Antwerpen go via the Oostersheldte / Hanswert Canal in Zeeland this will keep you well away from the strongest tides but still a great deal of barge traffic
good luck
 
G

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24 hours in an 18 footer? More like 40. And I can't see how night sailing is avoidable, unless of course you head south and cross closer to Ostend. It's a long crossing for an 18'-er. Main danger is a strong wind blows up from the N - W, in which case you a stuffed, none of the harbours around there can be entered with strong winds from that direction, the seas are nasty with the shelving ground, and the normal advice to head out to gain searoom may be hard in a small boat against the wind in rough waves.

So unless you're 10x better seaman than I (which is very possible), then you're taking a lottery ticket when you set off on the forecast being right over the next 40-odd hours.
 

Mudplugger

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As a lot of others have pointed out, its a fair way from the N.East to Den Helder and in a Hurley 18, your speed over the ground is probably not going to be much more than 4knots. Have you thought of dropping down the coast to Gt. Yarmouth/ Lowstoft and then heading across to Ijmueden?then Amersterdam. To get to Antwerp would suggest that you consider the Inland route from Amersterdam, although your boat speed would preclude you from doing it in one hit. (last time we did it...from 02.00 till 19.00 @ Willemstadt @ 6.5 Knots) But if you are in Holland, enjoy!....When crossing the TSS..remember it's the one that you can't see, that will give you a problem! cos' your horizon will only be about 5miles. and that lot are regularly knocking on 20+.... have a good trip.
 

TigaWave

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Many times when I've been cruising we crossed shipping lanes at less than 4knots, I brougt a boat back from Germany with only an unreliable 2.5hp outboard. (we sailed it in one go to Gosport from Bremerhaven, very slowly as the wind gods weren't helping)
Friends have done several channel crossings in all weathers in a slow 21' bilge keel thingy.
If its OK to do a transat in a folkboat (4 weeks food and water) then I cant see any real problems, it'll just take you a wee bit longer than someone in a 35'er....so take enough food!
I would save the fuel and engine just in case you need it to avoid a ship and about turn, keep a good lookout and 4 knots is fine.
Have a good trip sounds like a nice adventure.
 

Davolas

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Crossing in an 18ft boat is up to you and your confidence in crew and boat. Obviously easier from further South as shorter crossing, but longer trip to get down South then back North again. We did Burnham to Ijsselmeer and back in 2002. Holland and Ijsselmeer definitely not to be missed.

Tides behind friesen Islands before you lock into ijsselmeer very strong so make sure you have them with you.

Once inland no problems, wonderfull country and people. too many places to see, North sea canal OK as someone else said keep to right and watch for big ships. take copy of CEVNI regs. Watch out for wash and don't tie to banks on busy canals as you will get pounded by wash from big barges.

we went up North via coast and back via canals both very enjoyable depending on what experience you want, or can do part of each.

Gravelignmeer was OK but not as enjoyable as Ijsselmeer and Markenmeer. versemeer smaller and very beautifull.

Places we enjoyed most:

Enkhuizen: Zuider zee museum takes all day.

Marken old wooden cottages small harbour, free to port on entry pay to starboard.

Hoorn moor in old town not marina for best atmosphere.

Delta exhibition on Nelte jans island in middle of Osterschelde (I think) barrier.

Willemstad Old town

Veersemeer

Middleburg can climb church tower for view of country side.

Gouda: Nice town, awfull marina.

Crossing Hook of Holland, Busy and lumpy sea due to waves reflected from breakwater and tide rushing past extended entrance, but port control very helpfull on VHF told us exactly what traffic was around and when safe to cross.


Have a good trip

Steve
 
A

Anonymous

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How much experience do you have either as skipper and/or crew, and in what sort of vessel? What is the Hurley 18 going to be equipped with in terms of nav and safety kit? The advice really needs to reflect the experience and skills of the crew as well as the boat, and its equipment.
 

AliM

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The shipping is much less than crossing the channel, which many, many of the Solent-lot do in even small boats than yours, and I believe there is less chance of fog. With a bit of luck and decent weather forecasting, it will just be a very long, boring crossing. As others said, consider crossing from Lowestoft to shorten the passage. Den Helder is easy even in quite nasty weather, and the harbourmaster is welcoming and helpful. I'd be much happier with that route than the shorter (but much busier) crossings off Rotterdam or the Dover Straits.

You need an ICC with CEVNI for the canals (although we never had to show it), and you need to fill in a Schengen immigration form (from RYA website) to give to the Netherlands authorities.

Have fun!
 
G

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I would say it's a different ketttle of fish from crossing the Channel, and I wouldn't say that an awful lot of Solent sailors cross to France in less than 18' boats. Admittedly, I did it in a 16'-er, but I would say that I'm the exception that proves the rule /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But in any case, while I would have no qualms about crossing the Channel in an 18'er, I wouldn't cross the Southern North Sea in one. Partly because the nature of the seabed, length of fetch, and the harbour entrances make that a nasty place to be in certain winds in any kind of boat. But also because a 12-hour forecast for the Channel is one thing in terms of reliability, a 3 day forecast for the North Sea is completely different.

Either you choose the most stable weather system of the year, with light or no winds predicted for the foreseeable future, in which case without an engine it could take you 4 days to cross, or you go for a weather system with some wind to take you, and pray it doesn't come on any more than F5 from the North or the West in the next 40 hours. The Met Office 48 hour forecasts aren't accurate enough for you to have a very good idea of that in advance, so it's Russian roulette. Just like when playing Russian roulette, the chances are that you'll be OK, maybe.

As for traffic, I think it's safer to cross closer to Dover Straits. You may have more ships coming at you per minute, but they're much more likely to be keeping a decent look out in this area, and after an hour or two you'll be through it. It's not that hard.
 

squidge

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Have a look at the add hock water events forum, the East Coast is having a jolly to Oostend. It would be an idear to join them / us if i go ,The crossing will be at a narrow point and you will be with another boat should you have difficulty. With your speed you should be able to arrive in daylight if you leave in the dark from Harwich. It will mean a day longer sailing down the east coast and another on the way up the other side but the shorter distance will be kinder to your crew and give you the reasurance that help if needed is close at hand.Once across, from Oostend you can catch the tide which will take you up into the Westerschelde within a few hours.A Stop at Flushing or carry on into the canal and Middleburge.
Take enough fenders, long warps and be prepaired for close quarter action in the locks.
 

ashanta

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I was always taught that you should cross the shipping lanes at 5 knots or more and at right angles to the shipping lane so that your track can be clearly determined by shipping and that they in turn can make slight adjustments in anticipation to avoid you. IMHO going slow makes this task more difficult for ships.
Regards.

Peter.
 

ditchcrawler

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I agree that you would be better off crossing Lowestoft to Ijmuiden.You can cross the DWR's quite safely avoiding the North Hinder Junction area.It takes a day/night/day at 4 knots.You can overnight at Ijmuiden Marina then straight up the North Sea Canal to Amsterdam & out to Makermeer/Ijsselmeer.The shorter crossing will enable more accurate weather reports to be obtained.
 

Peppermint

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Re: You need a flexible plan

No matter how intrepid you are, spending days and nights trying to reach a specific harbour, might be a bit wearing. Up wind work will be particularly trying so getting the forecast right really matters.

Once you know what weather your in for you can pick a port to aim for. Most of them give access to the canals to get you where you want to be.

You need a copy of Cruising Guide to the Netherlands by Brian Navin.
 

LORDNELSON

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I have always found the main problem, particularly sailing with a crew of only two, is fatigue. In your case, with the limited speed of an 18 footer, I would be inclined to sail down to Dover, cross over to the French coast and work my way up to Holland. This way you always have a port of refuge not too far away. It may be that you do not have sufficient time to do this, but a lot can be done by sailing down the East Coast at weekends and leaving the boat at a different port each weekend until you get to Dover or Ramsgate and then setting off on your main cruise. Of course if you are very strong, youngish and confident of your stamina, you can do the longer passages - which my wife has always said are either dead boring or rather frightening, depending mainly on the weather, which as other contributors have pointed out becomes a bigger factor the longer you are off shore. Whatever you do good luck and fair winds!
 
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