no confidence in boat

[Dodgy Diver]

ok so I have a 93 fourwinns 235 vista
3 times last year I took it out ,,, 3 times it had issues
first time engine died , second time I turned it off out on the water and would not re start . 3rd time it was stuck in drive
to be honest I really love the idea of spending time on the water but im super worried now

this winter , the boat has had brand new carb , fuel pump , fuel filter , fuel tank and all new fuel lines .
its had a new high output alternator , new starter motor , new battery and cables . new ignition coil

new water pump and impeller

so decided to fire up the boat today from cold , it still spun over at least 10 times before it fired up

its a ford 351 Windsor engine . ive had American cars before and always fired up straight away
what am I missing ?
it scares me that ill take it out again with more issues ? thanks

 

[harvey38]

Not much left to change on the engine by the sounds of it, but I'd go back to basics. Assuming it has good compression, are you getting a good amount of new, good quality fuel atomised (have you tried 97 RON or whatever the new stuff is referred to) and are you getting a decent spark in the right order?

When it does fire up, does it tick over and respond to throttle input with no smoke etc?

One of my old engines would take ages to catch until someone told me I had to fully open and close the throttle three times to draw fuel through before turning the key, I never had the starting issue again.

 

[Dodgy Diver]

thanks for the reply , so the fuel tank was corroded , all fuel is now under a month old
once fired it runs sweet and revs up straight away
it just seems a sod to fire up
with a mechanical fuel pump I dont see how opening and closing the throttle 3 times will help . I understand I have to open it once to allow the electric choke to close

 

[Dodgy Diver]

I did consider replacing the dizzy but can only find a HEI unit ,

any down side to installing a new HEI unit with new ht leads ?

 

[ChromeDome]

Working the throttle (to full 2-3 times) will make the acceleration pump inside the carb squirt fuel into the intake, hence give it a richer mix to start on.

If firing order is ok and fuel gets in, something should happen. If it misfires runs rough etc. the timing may be off.
And leaks from ignition wires may send the spark to the engine ground instead of the spark plugs, which means no spark where it ought to be.

The firing order is crucial - once you get it right make sure to mark the wires, take pictures, make notes..

Edit: Distributor cap and rotor inside it could benefit from a replacement

 

[mucklestone]

thanks for the reply , so the fuel tank was corroded , all fuel is now under a month old
once fired it runs sweet and revs up straight away
it just seems a sod to fire up
with a mechanical fuel pump I dont see how opening and closing the throttle 3 times will help . I understand I have to open it once to allow the electric choke to close

Everytime you open and close the throttle, the carb will squirt a little fuel into the intake manifold. This fuel comes from the float chamber in the carb so it will still squirt fuel even without the mechanical fuel pump running.

The mechanical fuel pump just keeps the float chamber in the carb full so there is always some fuel in the carb to do this before the engine is running.

The exception might be after winter layup. Some people drain the carb float chamber before storage and it will take a bit of cranking for the mechanical fuel pump to fill it again. In normal use there will always be fuel in the crab to squirt.

On these engines a couple of squirts from the carb will MASSIVELY improve cold starting. All engines are a bit different and you learn what suits them best. Generally a couple of squirts and then set the lever to high tickover in neutral will start them right up.

Unless you have EFI my personal opinion is that you will struggle to start it without squirting the carb.

Other thing to check are the choke settings. They are an auto choke on these and are often swapped from your old carb when you get a new one. Getting the extract choke setting can be tricky but if in doubt set it a little more open than the manual suggests and give it an extra squirt by opening and closing the throttle.

 

[ChromeDome]

One thought: When replacing the fuel pump, did the hoses go on correctly (suck from tank, push to carb.)?

 

[PaulRainbow]

Working the throttle (to full 2-3 times) will make the acceleration pump inside the carb squirt fuel into the intake, hence give it a richer mix to start on.

If firing order is ok and fuel gets in, something should happen. If it misfires runs rough etc. the timing may be off.
And leaks from ignition wires may send the spark to the engine ground instead of the spark plugs, which means no spark where it ought to be.

The firing order is crucial - once you get it right make sure to mark the wires, take pictures, make notes..

Edit: Distributor cap and rotor inside it could benefit from a replacement

The OP said "once fired it runs sweet and revs up straight away" so it won't be firing order or fuel lines on the wrong way

 

[Dodgy Diver]

Everytime you open and close the throttle, the carb will squirt a little fuel into the intake manifold. This fuel comes from the float chamber in the carb so it will still squirt fuel even without the mechanical fuel pump running.

The mechanical fuel pump just keeps the float chamber in the carb full so there is always some fuel in the carb to do this before the engine is running.

The exception might be after winter layup. Some people drain the carb float chamber before storage and it will take a bit of cranking for the mechanical fuel pump to fill it again. In normal use there will always be fuel in the crab to squirt.

On these engines a couple of squirts from the carb will MASSIVELY improve cold starting. All engines are a bit different and you learn what suits them best. Generally a couple of squirts and then set the lever to high tickover in neutral will start them right up.

Unless you have EFI my personal opinion is that you will struggle to start it without squirting the carb.

Other thing to check are the choke settings. They are an auto choke on these and are often swapped from your old carb when you get a new one. Getting the extract choke setting can be tricky but if in doubt set it a little more open than the manual suggests and give it an extra squirt by opening and closing the throttle.

the choke came with the new marine edelbrock carb , ill try the 3 squirt thing tomorrow , thanks for the reply

 

[Dodgy Diver]

with the 3 pump thing , do you all do this even when engine is warm ? is it just part of your starting process , thanks

 

[ChromeDome]

You'll soon learn if it needs it Normally the pumping is when cold, as mucklestone said.

It may need 3 pumps and a tad throttle when cold - trial & error to find the best method for your setup

 

[SC35]

I think this is why the newer marine engines are EFI.
The last car engine I had with a Carb was a 1980 Talbot Avenger, and that was equally hard to start.

 

[SC35]

with the 3 pump thing , do you all do this even when engine is warm ? is it just part of your starting process , thanks

Three pump thing should only be from cold.
But “heat soak” can make warm starting difficult for entirely different reasons.

 

[westernman]

Make sure the battery is really delivering the amps to the starter motor and spinning the engine fast enough when cold.

 

[jon and michie]

what level has the fuel tank been left at especially over the winter period ? if left with low level condensation will form on the inside of the tank and mix with fuel and cause starting issues - I have seen this happen to a neighbour's boat.

 

[Muxey]

Hi for what is worth, I had a similar problem with a 67 mustang
Drove me nuts changed the coil ! Fixed ?

 

[penfold]

The shopping list of parts doesn't include spark plugs; if they're off difficult starting is a potential symptom. I also assume you've had a large bill from a mechanic for fitting all these new bits, yet it still doesn't run right; asking the mechanic to finish the job they started seems reasonable.

 

[QBhoy]

These things have a technique to starting in hot, warm and cold conditions. The auto choke can be a pain if it is in a state between not and cold. Definitely pump the throttle a few times when cold and don’t when hot, but be ready to catch her on the throttle if she’s anywhere between. Some guys do away with the auto choke altogether.

 

[jon and michie]

Start off with the simple things first.
Remove the plugs and check for a spark
Remove fuel pipe that goes from the pump to the carb - turn engine over to check fuel is feeding the carb.
when you have removed the plugs in step 1 check if they are wet ? this will indicate that the carb isnt blocked
if youre getting fuel in and the plugs are sparking your'e now down to 2 possibilities - 1 carb set up choke etc or 2 water in the fuel yes it may smell like petrol but if water is present it wont start so at this point remove the fuel pipe from the fuel tank to the pump and connect a pipe from a spare jerry can or the like with fresh petrol to the fuel pump and try starting the engine.
yes you may have had new parts fitted like a new coil etc but these can go faulty hence these steps

 

[FloridaCranchi34]

Here in the States the modern gas evaporates quickly and does not stay fresh very long. I have a 1970 Pontiac GTO with a Quadra Jet Carb on it. The fuel will evaporate out of the bowl vent tube in a few days...so I have to crank the engine for about 10 sec to fill the bowl again using the engine mounted mechanical pump. If you have an electric pump, it will pump the bowl full with the key on, but just like with my GTO, I have to give it about 5 stomps on the gas pedal (5 accelerator pump shots) to build up enough vapor in the intake manifold to fire off...with the choke set, she will then kick to high idle and stay there until I kick her off.

You actuating the throttle 3-5 times should do the trick I think, assuming you have an electric fuel pump and not the engine mounted mechanical one.