NMEA2K networking

[mullet]

Looking at the exorbitant prices of made up cables and some of the connectors I'm wondering if this is electronic industry standard stuff, I'm quite happy making up my own cables, has anyone any knowledge or experience of this ?

I have taken to buying connectors and cables on AliExpress. The app is not the most intuitive to use but they cost a fraction of the prices I’d pay locally, they have always worked, and they generally arrive in around a week. In my last couple of orders: 0.5m and 1m drop cables were £6, a pair of terminators were £6, a 6 port connector was £18, field connectors were £4 and so on.

 

[Rappey]

is there a single product from one of the big manufacturers which works with it yet?

Onwa marine are already using it but they do appear to be many years further forward than raymarine, garmin etc. They have been selling ais b+ for many years before the big players.
Nmea 2000 250kb/sec. Onenet up to 10gb/sec.
Nmea 2000 from what I've read will also be compatible with onenet.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Onwa marine are already using it but they do appear to be many years further forward than raymarine, garmin etc. They have been selling ais b+ for many years before the big players.

Are they using it, or is it just that some of their equipment are capable of using it ?

If they are so far ahead of Garmin, Raymarine etc, and their equipment is using OneNet, how is it communicating with other brands ?

Nmea 2000 250kb/sec. Onenet up to 10gb/sec.

So what ? OneNet is Ethernet based but using standard data formats, it's no better than Raynet, Garmin Marine Network or Bluenet

Nmea 2000 from what I've read will also be compatible with onenet.

It will not be compatible, they are two completely different things. They can both be implemented in the same device (MFD etc), the same as, for instance N2K and Garmin Marine Network do, or STNG and Raynet do. Both use STNG/N2K for anything that doesn't need higher data speeds and an Ethernet based network for those that do.

OneNet changes none of the above, other than having a network that uses standard data "messages" so that you can mix and match things like radar etc. This is likely one of the big reasons that Garmin, Raymarine et al are not taking up OneNet, it offers no benefit to them at all. They would also have to pay to use the NMEA standard, so why bother, it's just a cash cow the the NMEA.

 

[lustyd]

they are two completely different things

There is talk of N2K over Ethernet though, which would simplify wiring in some scenarios. Most of us would use the MFD as the N2K gateway anyway, as arguably many already do, so no benefit.
Making the sensors Ethernet/OneNet would just increase costs for no benefit as they don’t need the speed or distance. Ethernet also uses more power and requires a software stack which will be prone to bugs. Simpler is definitely better here

 

[Rappey]

Are they using it, or is it just that some of their equipment are capable of using it ?

If they are so far ahead of Garmin, Raymarine etc, and their equipment is using OneNet, how is it communicating with other brands ?

That took a lot of reading to answer that.
Essentially any one device can send its data to any other via the network. You could have a onwa mfd which has AIS and sounder built in sending the AIS and Sonar data to other less expensive onwa models that don't have these extras installed and become an independent clone of the mfd. An Onwa radar antenna on the same network can also send its data and be controlled by any of the plotters on the network as both KM and KP1299 model plotters have the different screens and controls already built in. Some devices, such as a Sonar Transducer, will still be NMEA 0183 but that can be connected to the KM12X via the 0183 data connection and that information will be converted to OneNet within the plotter and sent to all other devices. Really useful is that whilst this sharing is going on in the background any of the devices on the network can switch around their respective screens without any effect upon the others. e.g. A radar equipped plotter can send its radar information to other devices, they can view and adjust the radar antenna whilst the original host plotter has switched to an entirely different function.
For £500 you can buy a 7" chart plotter with free world wide maps that will also take c-map or navionics and has a ais b+ tranceiver built in.
A garmin or raymarine ais thats not even b+ is more money.

 

[PaulRainbow]

That took a lot of reading to answer that.
Essentially any one device can send its data to any other via the network. You could have a onwa mfd which has AIS and sounder built in sending the AIS and Sonar data to other less expensive onwa models that don't have these extras installed and become an independent clone of the mfd. An Onwa radar antenna on the same network can also send its data and be controlled by any of the plotters on the network as both KM and KP1299 model plotters have the different screens and controls already built in. Some devices, such as a Sonar Transducer, will still be NMEA 0183 but that can be connected to the KM12X via the 0183 data connection and that information will be converted to OneNet within the plotter and sent to all other devices. Really useful is that whilst this sharing is going on in the background any of the devices on the network can switch around their respective screens without any effect upon the others. e.g. A radar equipped plotter can send its radar information to other devices, they can view and adjust the radar antenna whilst the original host plotter has switched to an entirely different function.
For £500 you can buy a 7" chart plotter with free world wide maps that will also take c-map or navionics and has a ais b+ tranceiver built in.
A garmin or raymarine ais thats not even b+ is more money.

You completely missed the point !

Raynet can do all of the above, as can Garmin Marine Network and others. Onwa are using OneNet, rather than write their own software, nothing wrong with that.

My point was "how is it communicating with other brands ?". No-one else is using OneNet yet, so the Onwa can't do anything that Garmin and Raymarine are already doing.

 

[Lightwave395]

A follow on question - there's a Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG convertor cable which can be bought for £20 or so available and also a somewhat pricey Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG convertor 'kit' that carries a £100+ price.

Is there any weasel magic in the 'kit' NG plug-in end or is it just effectively a junction box ?

Will a single ST1 cable from an ST1 junction box with 2 or 3 ST1 connections connect to a ST NG back bone using just a convertor cable ?

 

[KompetentKrew]

A follow on question - there's a Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG convertor cable which can be bought for £20 or so available and also a somewhat pricey Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG convertor 'kit' that carries a £100+ price.

Is there any weasel magic in the 'kit' NG plug-in end or is it just effectively a junction box ?

Will a single ST1 cable from an ST1 junction box with 2 or 3 ST1 connections connect to a ST NG back bone using just a convertor cable ?

Depends exactly what you're trying to do.

I think you'd be better off elaborating about what devices / network you have now and what you're trying to add in, preferably by starting a new thread.

It makes perfect sense once you understand it, but I started trying to explain and gave up - it gets complicated quickly.

SeaTalk1 isn't compatible with NMEA 0183 or NMEA 2000 is the short version. You can't connect them with a dumb cable - you need some electronics to translate between SeaTalk1 and NMEA. Mixing SeaTalk1 and SeaTalkNG only works on all Raymarine networks, and probably then only in certain ways.

 

[PaulRainbow]

A follow on question - there's a Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG convertor cable which can be bought for £20 or so available and also a somewhat pricey Seatalk 1 to Seatalk NG convertor 'kit' that carries a £100+ price.

Is there any weasel magic in the 'kit' NG plug-in end or is it just effectively a junction box ?

Will a single ST1 cable from an ST1 junction box with 2 or 3 ST1 connections connect to a ST NG back bone using just a convertor cable ?

There is no such thins as a ST1 to STNG cable.

If you want to ues Seatalk devices on a STNG network you have to have the converter kit. Once you have a STNG network you can connect N2K devices to it with a converter cable or you can split the backbone and have both. STNG is really N2K with Raymarine rip-off proprietor cable.

 

[laika]

There is no such thins as a ST1 to STNG cable.
[…]
STNG is really N2K with Raymarine rip-off proprietor cable.

Ah but STNG differs from N2K in having that 6th wire which carries ST1 data and I’m guessing that’s what this cable is about. It’s not going to convert ST1 to N2K PGNs but it may bridge between that 6th wire and ST1 devices. Not what most people will want but may have its use cases. Disclaimer: I’m not familiar with this cable (I have the converter kit because I *do* want translation) and the product description isn’t exactly clear:

“This adapter is specifically used with ST70-series color instruments, or the E22158 SeaTalk to SeaTalk NG converter only. “

 

[Lightwave395]

Thanks to yourself and Paul, I thought a cable would be too simple to be true... I don't honestly know what I'm dealing with yet until I hopefully the survey on the boat is OK and I close the deal this week.
From what I can see thus far there's a DSC / AIS RX radio, a Tablet and an Actisense WGX-1 gateway at the chart table then 4 X ST60+'s, a RAY5000 pilot and an A65 plotter at the wheel, no idea yet how far or even if they're connected.
I have a Simrad NSS evo3 plotter and a Simrad AIS transceiver I intend to introduce but from the insight I've got from this thread I may just start again. It will become clearer this week when the boat is mine !