NHS Base

[Praxinoscope]

NHC Base

Looking through the NHCbase list, I noticed that the base handicap for the Sadler 25 shows 0.836 for the fin keel version and 0.841 for the bilge keel version.
I would have thought it should be the other way round fin keelers are usually quicker and better to windward than bilge keelers.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the system?

 

[Birdseye]

Yes you are. The result for a race is elapsed time for the boat multiplied by the handicap. You are thinking of the old PY system where you divided the time by the handicap.

In effect the NHC handicap is the reciprocal of the PY one. It works like IRC.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Ah So!

 

[lw395]

Yes you are. The result for a race is elapsed time for the boat multiplied by the handicap. You are thinking of the old PY system where you divided the time by the handicap.

In effect the NHC handicap is the reciprocal of the PY one. It works like IRC.

So a low number is a slow boat as per IRC?

 

[Praxinoscope]

Maybe I’m being dim now, but on the old PY the higher the PY number the slower the boat, if as you point out , on the NHS system it is the opposite then the faster boat should have the higher number, in the case of the Sadler 25 the slower boat (the bilge keeler) has the higher number which must be the wrong way round.
ET was divided by H/c in PY , in NHS the ET is multiplied by the H/c. Therefore surely the fin keeler should have a higher number than the bilge keeler?

 

[lw395]

Both base numbers are 'about 0.84'.
The base numbers are calculated how?
In as much as they have any meaning in the first place, they are subject to significant error, which is supposed not to matter.
Reading anything into an 0.6% difference between the two is probably missing the point.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Both base numbers are 'about 0.84'.
The base numbers are calculated how?
In as much as they have any meaning in the first place, they are subject to significant error, which is supposed not to matter.
Reading anything into an 0.6% difference between the two is probably missing the point.

It may be miising the point but I know how close we have been in the past on the old PY, and it does seem odd that the fin keeler has the lower number, it makes it even more difficult for me to beat the ‘bugger’

 

[Pagetslady]

What is the NHS Base, is it the same as the NHC National Handicap for Cruisers I think the slower boat has the higher handicap.

 

[Praxinoscope]

What is the NHS Base, is it the same as the NHC National Handicap for Cruisers I think the slower boat has the higher handicap.

Sorry my error must be going GaGa, should have typed NHC, put it down to yet another ‘senior moment’

 

[markhomer]

Op is correct the lower the number under nhs and irc ,theoretically the slower the boat ,

 

[Daydream believer]

Is NHS based on a collection of returned results of races sent back to race HQ? if this is the case it could be that the fin keel sailors were all less experienced than bilge keel sailors & their results reflected this. This resulted in a distorted handicap. If sailors of equal ability sailed both types for a set period & their results anlaysed by the rating office the figures may be reversed
Or am i totally wrong????

 

[Praxinoscope]

Is NHS based on a collection of returned results of races sent back to race HQ? if this is the case it could be that the fin keel sailors were all less experienced than bilge keel sailors & their results reflected this. This resulted in a distorted handicap. If sailors of equal ability sailed both types for a set period & their results anlaysed by the rating office the figures may be reversed
Or am i totally wrong????

I don’t think it does rely upon regular returns from clubs, that was the problem with PY, the returns were becoming so fragmented that it was becoming impossible to maintain the h/c listings.

 

[Muddy32]

And what is more, for a longer regatta the handicap changes each and every result [race].
Something that we are changing for the Dartmouth Regatta; The handicap at the start of the week will be applied all through the 4 days racing.
Boats will then know where they stand vis a vis others in their class for every race. KISS.
It is not really for the "serious racers", who will be registered and use IRC.

 

[lw395]

And what is more, for a longer regatta the handicap changes each and every result [race].
Something that we are changing for the Dartmouth Regatta; The handicap at the start of the week will be applied all through the 4 days racing.
Boats will then know where they stand vis a vis others in their class for every race. KISS.
It is not really for the "serious racers", who will be registered and use IRC.

Will people know what handicaps will be before they enter?

 

[Muddy32]

Yes, you can look it up on the rya site about nhc. It will be checked, when you register.

 

[Birdseye]

Is NHS based on a collection of returned results of races sent back to race HQ? if this is the case it could be that the fin keel sailors were all less experienced than bilge keel sailors & their results reflected this. This resulted in a distorted handicap. If sailors of equal ability sailed both types for a set period & their results anlaysed by the rating office the figures may be reversed
Or am i totally wrong????

No NHC base isnt done like that. The NHC base is calculated on design data in very much the same way that the IRC handicap is. In fact the RORC who do the IRC calculations helped the RYA to devise a similar but simpler system to calculate the base number.

So you can imagine NHC as being IRC Lite, at least as far as the start number is concerned. Then the RYA added in a quite sophisticated method of adjusting the individual handicap numbers to reflect performance. Just like a golf handicap. But by doing this using a computer program they got rid of the fiddling / bias / incompetence / favouritism which sometimes blighted the adjustment of the PY numbers to reflect perpformance.

One issue with the NHC base but which was much better with the PY base was the adjustment factors that PY applied to the base to change from say a fin to a bilge of the smae hull or from a 3 blade fixed to a 2 blade folder. There is no such adjustment in NHC the idea being that the performance adjustment will do that for you. And it does in a series but not in a regatta