Newbridge Pioneer

[Ken_Stra]

I am the proud owner of a 1988 Pioneer Pilot (hull number 8805, sail number 35) which has unfortunately suffered underwater damage over the weekend. The rudder is now irrecoverable, deep at the bottom of Loch Lommond!

I have been in touch with Bill Dixon, the designer, and he tells me that the plans for this yacht were kept at the yard and that they are unable to assist with any data or drawings for the rudder assembly. He did advise that the owners club may have recovered the plans when the latter incarnation, N.B.Yachts Ltd., "went down" but I have established that this is not the case.

Can anyone out there help? Any clues, dimensions, data, plans, moulds etc.?


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[Steve_Bentley]

The copy of the Pioneer brochure you can get from the owner's club site has the most basic of line drawings at the end, but I guess it has no practical value. Can the owner's club not put you in touch with an owner to crib the actual measurements from? Best of luck.

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[steve28]

Would it not be possible to get a diver to recover the rudder ?, i dont know the circumstances leading up to the loss so this is just an alternative answer.


steve

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks Steve. Loss was due to hitting floating debris offshore. Loch Lomond is approximately 37 kilometres long, and up to 8 kilometres wide, with an average depth of about 37 metres, and a maximum depth of about 190 metres. It has a surface area of approximately 71 million square metres, and a volume of about 2.6 billion cubic metres. It is also well known for strong under currents. My depth sounder was "off the scale" when I lost the rudder. I am afraid that, short of an extended search with a mini-sub, I have to consider the original rudder as irrecoverable. Ken.

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks Steve. As you say, the line drawings on the brochure are of no practical assistance. The owners club have put out a request already but, sod's law, none of the members who have responded have their boats are on the hard. We are still trying to find one that is not scheduled to winter afloat. Ken

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[stevebrassett]

This may seem a bit obvious, but have you tried brokers, etc. to see if
there are any for sale? I'm sure they wouldn't object to you taking a camera
and tape measure along.

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks Steve. Obvious, it may be, but the obvious is often the overlooked! Unfortunately, the only ones that I have managed to locate on brokerage are in Pembrokeshire (on the water) and Hull (also on the water). Either is a bit of an expedition for me.. but it might come to that, when either is lifted out. Ken

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[Talbot]

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/BSW030/>here</A> is one for sail. I am sure you could negotiate with t he owner for measurement of their rudder.

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks Mark. I had already spotted this one but, in common with the other one currently for sale, I understand that she is not on the hard.

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[Wardy]

If you arent in too much of a hurry, a friend's Pioneer Pilot comes out of the water this weekend to be layed up for winter. Unfortunately in Essex (Bradwell), but I could certainly get you in touch with him.

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks Steve. I am always in a hurry when it comes to having my boat in commission but one weekend can’t hurt too much, can it? It will be the first that I will have missed since launching in March and I had not intended missing any… Oh well, a good excuse to sit back in the bar at the moorings, drown my sorrows, and watch the wonderful scenery dim. I will let you know if I get anywhere in the meantime but would be very pleased to be put in contact with your Essex friend in any event.

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[paws]

Hi ken
Probably by now you will have sorted out the dimensions for your rudder and made a new one. I only saw your original October post just now so thought i would reply.
I have a similar boat (bilge Keel version) which is out of the water, and I would be happy to take some photos and scale them for you. I could also make a template out of wood for the rudder if you really wanted one, and can let you have a drawing of the bottom shoe bearing as I asked the boatyard to make me a spare when I renewed it. I can also put a micrometer (probably a vernier) on the rudder stock and measure the diameter for you if this would help.
My boat is on the south coast
Regards

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[jleaworthy]

This is probably of little help but my Pioneer is out of the water on Carbost Pier, Isle of Skye. She is going to be moved next Wednesday down to Essex where I have myself moved three weeks ago. If you want to check her rudder dimensions before then you are most welcome to do so. Incidentally, how do you think you lost what appears to be a most secure skeg mounted rudder? Is there an unsuspected weak point here do you suppose?

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks John

The response that I have had to my predicament has been wonderful and I already have actual rudder dimensions from various sources. You will be glad to know that I have not had any feedback to suggest that there is an inherent problem, or weakness, in the rudder assembly. I have not yet been able to get the boat out of the water but, from underwater inspection, it would appear that not only is the rudder gone. The skeg is sheared. The only conclusion that I can draw, at the present time is that the assembly has suffered severe damage, from flotsam, whilst on the swinging mooring and that this only manifested itself when I was underway. If I find out anything to the contrary then I will post appropriately on this forum. Best of luck with your move. I trust that you will enjoy sailing as much on the south coast as you have done in the Western Isles.

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[Ken_Stra]

Thanks Nigel,

Regrettably, I have not yet managed to get things sorted out. I do have the dimensions of the rudder and skeg but I have been having difficulty getting the boat out of the water. As you know, the mast requires to be craned. I am restricted as to where I can go without dropping the mast, because of bridges. The only accessible facility, for lifting the boat out of the water, is at the very top of the loch (some 20+ miles from where she is moored, and more importantly about an additional hour, each way, from civilisation). I have been patiently waiting my turn have her trailered out on a hydraulic rig and would hope that this will be done in relatively early course.

I should be very pleased to take you up on your kind offer to provide me with a drawing of the bottom shoe bearing. This is something which I have not yet been able to obtain.

Thankyou for you continued assistance.
Regards

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