Newbridge Navigator, any positive opinions?

[Marakei]

I am thinking of travelling to look at a junk rigged Newbridge Navigator as a potential first boat. So I searched this forum to see what the combined wisdom was.

Forumites said that the Navvy 'sails like a brick', nominated it as one of the ugliest boats ever, and said it was only fit for sailing on a lake.

I know there's an owner's association so presumably they like their boats, but does anyone think they're better than described? Or even that the unflattering descriptions are accurate, as that will save me a journey!

PS Did a post along these lines a few days ago but it never appeared, apologise if this ends up a duplicate.

 

[Seajet]

Merry Girl,

for the sake of all that's holy don't do it !

you and a chum are welcome for a sail on a boat that was designed rather than congealed like the NN, but she's not for sale at any price...

Newbridge boats - especially the later built ones - have a reputation for poor build quality too, so as it's your first boat, if you really want it a pro' survey may be a good idea; shop around, surveyors fees vary a lot; a local sailing club's members may be able to advise, even if you're only a potential member.

If sticking to 19' ( and why would one ? ) the Manta 19 would just ask " how many rings would you like to sail aroud a Newbridge boat ?! "

Speed in this case not being anything to do with racing, just a responsive boat makes sailing worthwhile, and getting to port before the pubs shut or storm hits is generally a good idea.

 

[Grumpybear]

I am thinking of travelling to look at a junk rigged Newbridge Navigator as a potential first boat. So I searched this forum to see what the combined wisdom was.

Forumites said that the Navvy 'sails like a brick', nominated it as one of the ugliest boats ever, and said it was only fit for sailing on a lake.

I know there's an owner's association so presumably they like their boats, but does anyone think they're better than described? Or even that the unflattering descriptions are accurate, as that will save me a journey!

PS Did a post along these lines a few days ago but it never appeared, apologise if this ends up a duplicate.

We owned a junk rigged NN 20 years ago, for one year only as we decided to trade up - she was a bit small for two adults, two teenagers and two large woolly dogs! the experience wasn't all bad - it didn't put us off. we sold her to a lady who, I believe, kept her for a number of years.

SJ has a point, but as usual is overstating it for comic effect. go and have a look, try her out and make up your own mind.

by the way, ours was called MISTRAL, and she went to live in Dartmouth.

 

[Lakesailor]

But do take the gist of what Seajet says to heart.
After a few years away from boats we bought a Valiant which was a bit of a tub. It did have some endearing qualities, but nothing you could fall in love with.
That's on a lake, where if you get fed up of tacking backwards and forwards, but getting nowhere you can go home. Trying to make passages, catch tides, avoid weather would have been a trial.

They are bit like a car with "showroom appeal", it fades once you're on the road.

 

[Pete7]

If sticking to 19' ( and why would one ? ) the Manta 19 would just ask " how many rings would you like to sail aroud a Newbridge boat ?! "

I wonder if this Jaguar would be a better bet:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-22...ing_Boats_ET&hash=item4ab7a72cca#ht_943wt_976

or even this Leisure 23:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leisure-2...ing_Boats_ET&hash=item33763c2a5e#ht_500wt_994

 

[Scillypete]

There was a guy that used to sail his to Scilly every summer and stay for months but he stopped when he was in his eighties . . . . maybe he decided on trading up.

As said already there are many other similar sized boats that are ideal starters.

 

[halcyon]

I am thinking of travelling to look at a junk rigged Newbridge Navigator as a potential first boat. So I searched this forum to see what the combined wisdom was.

Forumites said that the Navvy 'sails like a brick', nominated it as one of the ugliest boats ever, and said it was only fit for sailing on a lake.

First yacht we owned, for 3 years, was a Navvy, ended up bought by a formite up the Lake district, may still be around there ' RELAX '.

I would go along with a lake boat, thought we sailed to the Helford and around Falmouth bay. Yes we have spent 3 hour tacking up Carrick roads against the incoming tide, and never made a foot. But we had 3 hours nice sailing, on a nice sunny day, and had fun. We sold it to the chap who bought our previous house, he was a dinghy sailer, and thought Relax was a fantastic boat.

Build qaulity was good, never found or had a problem. Design, always thought it looked a pritty little boat, bit like a miniture proper yacht.

As a first boat we had a lot of fun, plus a couple of nightmares, we learnt to sail, we had a lot of enjoyment, all for not a great deal of money.

End of the day, get the owner to take you for a sail, have a go yourself, then think do I feel secure, or am I nervous, if the later walk away.

Brian

 

[Seajet]

I wonder if this Jaguar would be a better bet:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-22...ing_Boats_ET&hash=item4ab7a72cca#ht_943wt_976

or even this Leisure 23:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leisure-2...ing_Boats_ET&hash=item33763c2a5e#ht_500wt_994

I really don't like giving negative opinions, but as this forum is about information...

I have seen 2 Jag 22 lift keelers which when left ashore had the hull sag down around the keel like a pudding !

The Leasure 23 is a fine boat as long as one doesn't want to actually go anywhere; when meeting a chum in one in Emsworth Channel, we were running, he was beating, I called " How goes it Dave ? "; my crew quietly said " Sideways ! "...

 

[timbartlett]

... As said already there are many other similar sized boats that are ideal starters.

And some of them don't have bare kneeling headroom and a damn great drop keel case taking up half the miniscule cabin space like the Anderson 22, some of them won't be as pug-ugly as the Westerly 22 etc. etc. or as slow as a Macwester Rowan etc. etc. etc.-- but every one of them will involve some sort of compromise that will be acceptable to some people but not to others.

 

[chrisedwards]

navigator

Please do it - I regularly sailed a Newbridge Navigator across the North Sea to Holland and Channel to France. She felt secure and safe at all times. It is a delightful boat with surprisingly fine underwater lines belying her above the water appearance.

My son has owned a junk rig navigator from the age of eleven - he used to solo it to the Isle of Wight at that age. It was the only rig my wife would consider for him. I just cannot see any advantage the bermudan rig has over junk - though many will disagree on this. There are many posts on the rig you can peruse but if you are at Ashlett Creek 23/24JUne - there is a junk rig rally.

They are fantastic value at the moment. Wonderful accommodation and spacious cockpit, great outboard well, gas locker,etc etc. The build quality is good.


for the sake of all that's holy don't do it !

you and a chum are welcome for a sail on a boat that was designed rather than congealed like the NN, but she's not for sale at any price...

Newbridge boats - especially the later built ones - have a reputation for poor build quality too, so as it's your first boat, if you really want it a pro' survey may be a good idea; shop around, surveyors fees vary a lot; a local sailing club's members may be able to advise, even if you're only a potential member.

If sticking to 19' ( and why would one ? ) the Manta 19 would just ask " how many rings would you like to sail aroud a Newbridge boat ?! "

Speed in this case not being anything to do with racing, just a responsive boat makes sailing worthwhile, and getting to port before the pubs shut or storm hits is generally a good idea.[/QUOTE]

 

[VicS]

If you are interested in 19ft boat as a 1st boat then you wont go far wrong with a Sea Wych . Not fast but seaworthy and roomier inside than most others that size. Palatial compared with an A22 Lots more head room and no keel case

usually one or two for sale via the Owners Association... but not at present

Links to an article in ST magazine

http://www.seawych.org/ST412.jpg

http://www.seawych.org/ST413.jpg

http://www.seawych.org/ST414.jpg

 

[Seajet]

And some of them don't have bare kneeling headroom and a damn great drop keel case taking up half the miniscule cabin space like the Anderson 22, some of them won't be as pug-ugly as the Westerly 22 etc. etc. or as slow as a Macwester Rowan etc. etc. etc.-- but every one of them will involve some sort of compromise that will be acceptable to some people but not to others.

Tim,

you are talking out of your transom !

The majority of A22's have the unobtrusive keelcase, as shown on the 'buyers guide' on the website www.anderson22class.co.uk

When reviewed by David Harding of PBO and Duncan Kent of Sailing Today - complete with tape measures - they didn't seem to think her cabin 'miniscule', nor did we when self, fiancee and a chum had a 3 week holiday cruise around the Channel Islands & West Country...

 

[chanelyacht]

or even this Leisure 23:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leisure-2...ing_Boats_ET&hash=item33763c2a5e#ht_500wt_994

According to the listing, that has had "5 births", so I'd check for stains as part of the survey.

Just being helpful, like

 

[Seajet]

VicS,

while headroom is not a priority for real sailing boats, - and nor are twin vertical keels built in for moulding rather than sailing design reasons
- I'd love to know how "a Sea Wych is palatial compared to an Anderson 22" you are welcome for a sail !

Andy

 

[timbartlett]

Tim,

you are talking out of your transom !

The majority of A22's had the unobtrusive keelcase, as shown on the 'buyers guide' on the website www.anderson22class.co.uk

When reviewed by David Harding of PBO and Duncan Kent of Sailing Today - complete with tape measures - they didn't seem to think her cabin 'miniscule', nor did we when self, fiancee and a chum had a 3 week holiday cruise around the Channel Islands & West Country...

No, I am not "talking out of my transom": I am expressing a perfectly valid opinion, based on facts, which happens to disagree with yours, and you don't like it so you are trying to shout me down.

From the reviews section of the website you linked to (Small Boat, 1976) "The maximum headroom is only 4ft 8in" That's the maximum, and it's 1-inch more than the distance from the floor to the top of my head when I'm kneeling down. I think "bare kneeling headroom" was a pretty good summary.

"Damn great drop keel case"? Well, I'm sorry, but I didn't realise that I was going to have to justify and quantify every element of my comment, but here's another view (from the same website) of the effect of that "unobtrusive keelcase" -- almost up to the deckhead, and almost half the length of the saloon.

.
Notice the unobtrusive way in which the interior layout has had to be designed around the keel case, so that the entrance to the fo'c'stle has to be offset to one side, partly blocked by the keel winch handle.

Don't get me wrong: I am NOT knocking the Anderson 22 -- well, I am now, but I didn't start off that way. The problem is that in a very small boat, compromises have to be made. Just because your choice involves different compromises than someone else's does not make their choice "wrong" or yours the only "right"

Nor does it mean that someone who attempts to inject a bit of balance is "talking out of their transom".

 

[Marakei]

responses

Thank you for the responses.

Most impressed with the North Sea crossings, not bad for a lake boat. Inclining towards going to view, despite Seajet's harsh words.

VicS, yes, Seawychs are an option. I love the internal layout and would be very tempted by one in good condition.

 

[Chrusty 1]

Thank you for the responses.

Most impressed with the North Sea crossings, not bad for a lake boat. Inclining towards going to view, despite Seajet's harsh words.

VicS, yes, Seawychs are an option. I love the internal layout and would be very tempted by one in good condition.

Merry Girl, I would do just that, you OP was an open invitation for the forumites, to spew forth all their pet prejudices, they were surprisingly restrained, except for you know who, and he always does that. You are the one that will be sailing her, so go and give her a go, then you can make up your own mind.

If junk rig interests you, the JRA are holding a rally at QAB Plymouth. on the 26-27th of this month, if you are interested, PM me and I will give you a contact number.

Sadly for the most part, you will learn very little on these forums about the Junk Rig, because most are totally prejudiced against it, not that many have actually sailed any distance with the rig, or even sailed with it at all. It is a cruising rig, not a racing rig, and it is mostly set up on western hulls for ease of handling day in and day out on passage. In my opinion, it is a brilliant rig for covering ground with the least amount of hassle.

 

[chrisedwards]

You say a "brilliant rig for covering ground with the least amount of hassle" - it far more than that - the latest generation of junk rigs are the best rig for club racing - we thrashed similar boats in a junk rig in RTI race. Its the best rig for manoeuvering under sail, sailing if you are old, sailing if you have a family on board, sailing if you do not like to use the engine, single handed sailing, sailing on a budget (no wires to replace,sails blown out etc.) sailing basically - so as Chrusty says - give it a try - then come back to us with an opinion please.

Merry Girl, I would do just that, you OP was an open invitation for the forumites, to spew forth all their pet prejudices, they were surprisingly restrained, except for you know who, and he always does that. You are the one that will be sailing her, so go and give her a go, then you can make up your own mind.

If junk rig interests you, the JRA are holding a rally at QAB Plymouth. on the 26-27th of this month, if you are interested, PM me and I will give you a contact number.

Sadly for the most part, you will learn very little on these forums about the Junk Rig, because most are totally prejudiced against it, not that many have actually sailed any distance with the rig, or even sailed with it at all. It is a cruising rig, not a racing rig, and it is mostly set up on western hulls for ease of handling day in and day out on passage. In my opinion, it is a brilliant rig for covering ground with the least amount of hassle.

 

[Chrusty 1]

You say a "brilliant rig for covering ground with the least amount of hassle" - it far more than that - the latest generation of junk rigs are the best rig for club racing - we thrashed similar boats in a junk rig in RTI race. Its the best rig for manoeuvering under sail, sailing if you are old, sailing if you have a family on board, sailing if you do not like to use the engine, single handed sailing, sailing on a budget (no wires to replace,sails blown out etc.) sailing basically - so as Chrusty says - give it a try - then come back to us with an opinion please.

Well Chris, I knew about the RTI race, but I didn't want to stir up a hornets nest, or talk about something I know nothing about, ie. racing I completely agree with your comments however. The Navigator may well just have the flat sail with wooden battens, so if it has, it wont be as close winded as the later cambered panels of hinged batten jobbies, but as a first boat to learn to sail in, and have some fun with, a pretty good choice I reckon. If Merrygirl wants to talk to somebody about the standard Newbridge rig, one Tommyrot of this parish has covered a few miles with it, in his Coromandel.

Talking of which, perhaps she should have a read of this?

http://02c1289.netsolhost.com/AZORES.HTM

 

[colhel]

The Leasure 23 is a fine boat as long as one doesn't want to actually go anywhere; when meeting a chum in one in Emsworth Channel, we were running, he was beating, I called " How goes it Dave ? "; my crew quietly said " Sideways ! "...

You write such rubbish sometimes